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PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any o

PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. Unless there are specific laws to the contrary, its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. (More generally, postal services in the EU tend to be structured as businesses these days, because they are in direct competition with various courier and package delivery services.) Also, while the employees may be on strike, managers who rank high enough are not represented. If a company has particularly important obligations it needs to honor, it can always tell the managers to handle them personally.

bjornsing 3y ago
> Also, while the employees may be on strike, managers who rank high enough are not represented. If a company has particularly important obligations it needs to honor, it can always tell the managers to handle them personally. You have to get very high in the hierarchy before you find a manager that the unions will not represent. This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say.
- InCityDreams 3y ago
  I'm not 'very high' at all (EU based, countries/rules differ). Just by title "Manager", I am not allowed by contract to join a Union. The Unions would represent me, but I voluntarily signed away that particular right. I do, though, thoroughly support the sympathy strikes: fuck you, tesla.
- Legogris 3y ago
  > This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say. I'd say it's a key factor to why it can sustain at all. Compare to tech startups and big tech where I imagine the majority of those who would be able to drive a union are already intertwined enough in leadership that they feel prevented from organizing due to conflict of interest.
mytailorisrich 3y ago
Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a week.
- paulryanrogers 3y ago
  Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.
  - mytailorisrich 3y ago
    To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... ""The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions)." Tesla has a right to postal service in the same way as everyone else.
    - einr 3y ago
      Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.
      - mytailorisrich 3y ago
        What force majeure? Do you know what the term means?
        einr 3y ago
        To answer in kind: yes, do you? https://da.se/2023/11/totalstopp-for-nya-telsabilar-far-elon-musk-att-reagera-galenskap/ https://da.se/2023/11/totalstopp-for-nya-telsabilar-far-elon... https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure "Med force majeure avses vanligen krig, upplopp, brand, naturkatastrofer (som översvämning, orkan, jordbävning), explosioner, strejk, nya lagar som förbjuder fullföljandet av avtalet, och liknande." I'll assume you read Swedish since you seem to be an expert at the issue. If not, you can plug these into a translator yourself.
type0 3y ago
Why aren't Tesla suing PostNord instead?
- moogly 3y ago
  Because the right to strike is written in the constitution. Postnord isn't really in the wrong here, but instead it's the Swedish DMV that has a questionable inflexibility of using something else than Postnord. The state is not supposed to partake, intentionally or not, in this "game of chess" between employers and unions.
- mxsjoberg 3y ago
  they are suing both
thaumasiotes 3y ago
> PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. That would be a public business?
- user_named 3y ago
  It's not publicly listed. It's private.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    That is not the sense of the word "private" used by jltsiren: >>> its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. A business owned by the state is part of the public sector, not the private sector. This isn't a question of whether shares of its stock are traded on a public exchange. Companies with publicly-listed stock are still private companies in this sense.
- jltsiren 3y ago
  PostNord a publicly owned company, but it's an ordinary company by its legal status. The latter is what matters for the legal rights of its employees. Because PostNord is in direct competition with privately owned businesses, it should operate under the same rules as its competitors. It could be seen as an unfair an possibly illegal advantage if its employees were not allowed to strike.

bjornsing 3y ago

> Also, while the employees may be on strike, managers who rank high enough are not represented. If a company has particularly important obligations it needs to honor, it can always tell the managers to handle them personally. You have to get very high in the hierarchy before you find a manager that the unions will not represent. This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say.

InCityDreams 3y ago
I'm not 'very high' at all (EU based, countries/rules differ). Just by title "Manager", I am not allowed by contract to join a Union. The Unions would represent me, but I voluntarily signed away that particular right. I do, though, thoroughly support the sympathy strikes: fuck you, tesla.
Legogris 3y ago
> This is one of the major problems with the Nordic model I would say. I'd say it's a key factor to why it can sustain at all. Compare to tech startups and big tech where I imagine the majority of those who would be able to drive a union are already intertwined enough in leadership that they feel prevented from organizing due to conflict of interest.

mytailorisrich 3y ago

Refusing to distribute mail to a specific recipient does not sound like a 'strike' in the sense of labour dispute to me. In France (often used a reference when it comes to striking...) that wouldn't be a legal strike, but obviously every jurisdiction is different. In any case, this also probably breaches EU law related to universal postal service, which states that mail must be delivered to every address 5 days a week.

paulryanrogers 3y ago
Personal postage and large commercial shipments seem unrelated to me. Moreso if the former is via a government delivery service and the latter is via a private company.
- mytailorisrich 3y ago
  To you perhaps, but not to universal postal service laws... ""The universal service obligation (USO) is the core of the Postal Services Directive (97/67/EC, amended by Directives 2002/39/EC and 2008/6/EC). This is the requirement that letters and parcels should be delivered to each home or business premises, on 5 days each week, throughout each EU country (with exemptions)." Tesla has a right to postal service in the same way as everyone else.
  - einr 3y ago
    Force majeure trumps all obligations. There is no law being broken here.
    - mytailorisrich 3y ago
      What force majeure? Do you know what the term means?
      - einr 3y ago
        To answer in kind: yes, do you? https://da.se/2023/11/totalstopp-for-nya-telsabilar-far-elon-musk-att-reagera-galenskap/ https://da.se/2023/11/totalstopp-for-nya-telsabilar-far-elon... https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_majeure "Med force majeure avses vanligen krig, upplopp, brand, naturkatastrofer (som översvämning, orkan, jordbävning), explosioner, strejk, nya lagar som förbjuder fullföljandet av avtalet, och liknande." I'll assume you read Swedish since you seem to be an expert at the issue. If not, you can plug these into a translator yourself.

type0 3y ago

Why aren't Tesla suing PostNord instead?

moogly 3y ago
Because the right to strike is written in the constitution. Postnord isn't really in the wrong here, but instead it's the Swedish DMV that has a questionable inflexibility of using something else than Postnord. The state is not supposed to partake, intentionally or not, in this "game of chess" between employers and unions.
mxsjoberg 3y ago
they are suing both

thaumasiotes 3y ago

> PostNord is a private business owned by Sweden and Denmark. That would be a public business?

user_named 3y ago
It's not publicly listed. It's private.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  That is not the sense of the word "private" used by jltsiren: >>> its employees have the same right to strike as any other private sector employees. A business owned by the state is part of the public sector, not the private sector. This isn't a question of whether shares of its stock are traded on a public exchange. Companies with publicly-listed stock are still private companies in this sense.
jltsiren 3y ago
PostNord a publicly owned company, but it's an ordinary company by its legal status. The latter is what matters for the legal rights of its employees. Because PostNord is in direct competition with privately owned businesses, it should operate under the same rules as its competitors. It could be seen as an unfair an possibly illegal advantage if its employees were not allowed to strike.