4 ms·

The number by COVID is 19,716. Euthanasia is absent on here but is 13,241 for context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.o

by graphe 3y ago

The number by COVID is 19,716. Euthanasia is absent on here but is 13,241 for context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada

lukev 3y ago
Regardless of one's opinions on if MAID is a good idea, it seems unfair to regard it as a "cause of death". Wouldn't that be more correctly attributable to the underlying condition?
- Eumenes 3y ago
  You can say the same thing in regards to how the CDC lumps suicide into "gun violence" deaths but don't blame sleeping pills, ropes, driving cars off bridges, or whatever OTC drug one can buy to reach the same conclusion. Weaponizing data is a government statisticians job.
  - wk_end 3y ago
    Admittedly I'm just guessing here, but I strongly suspect that suicide by OTC drugs are indeed counted as drug overdoses by government statisticians, which seems like it would be the correct analogy?
    - Eumenes 3y ago
      Looks like they only have a certain set of drugs related to overdose deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm > Drug overdose deaths are identified using underlying cause-of-death codes from the Tenth Revision of ICD (ICD–10): X40–X44 (unintentional), X60–X64 (suicide), X85 (homicide), and Y10–Y14 (undetermined). Drug overdose deaths involving selected drug categories are identified by specific multiple cause-of-death codes. Drug categories presented include: heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics, including morphine and codeine, and semisynthetic opioids, including drugs such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone (T40.2); methadone, a synthetic opioid (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone, including drugs such as fentanyl and tramadol (T40.4); cocaine (T40.5); and psychostimulants with abuse potential, which includes methamphetamine (T43.6). Opioid overdose deaths are identified by the presence of any of the following multiple cause-of-death codes: opium (T40.0); heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics (T40.2); methadone (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone (T40.4); or other and unspecified narcotics (T40.6). This latter category includes drug overdose deaths where ‘opioid’ is reported without more specific information to assign a more specific ICD–10 code (T40.0–T40.4) (4,5). Among deaths with an underlying cause of drug overdose, the percentage with at least one drug or drug class specified is defined as that with at least one ICD–10 multiple cause-of-death code in the range T36–T50.8. Two additional categories were added based on CDC’s Opioid Overdose Indicator Support Toolkit (6): drug overdose deaths involving natural, semi-synthetic, or synthetic opioids, including methadone (T40.2–T40.4); drug overdose deaths involving natural and semi-synthetic opioids, and methadone (T40.2–T40.3). These new categories, which are a combination of existing categories, are not displayed on the default figure to facilitate ease of display of the main drug categories, but are accessible through the drop-down box that allows for selection of specific drug categories.
- xeckr 3y ago
  If someone shoots themselves, the proximal cause of death is "self-inflicted gunshot wound", not "depression".
- herodotus 3y ago
  When a person with an incurable terminal disease chooses MAID, the disease itself is listed as the cause of death on the death certificate.
- chrisco255 3y ago
  No, if one ends their life prematurely by suicide, then suicide is the cause of death.
  - Jerrrry 3y ago
    [flagged]
  - Terr_ 3y ago
    There are situations where that statistic/categorization is meaningful, but not in this context of trying to rank different causative diseases and public health risks. For example, imagine that 99% of all the euthanized are people who chose it after a diagnosis of the "Insane Agony Virus." Obviously we would want all those mortal data-points to get counted as reasons to fight IAV, even if only a tiny number of people died because the virus finally turned their brain to mush after weeks of thrashing about on a table in mind-breaking pain.
    - chrisco255 3y ago
      Because secondary effects are impossible to untangle or verify. Maybe IAV is just a made up term that people use, or far more people believe that they have IAV than is actually the case, or that they are wrongly convinced that IAV is incurable or untreatable, or the medical system has been perversely incentivized to encourage medically assisted suicide in the case of IAV diagnosis, or it's actually the case that it's not IAV causing the agony but actually a prescription drug side effect that interacts with the brain in such a way as to invoke IAV in certain cases, etc etc. None of that is science, of course. Separately, there should be a list of rationalizations for victims that undergo medically assisted suicide. And it should be analyzed to find ways to reduce the number of suicides.
      - Terr_ 3y ago
        I read that as "What-If Something Completely Different Instead", rather than engaging with the point being highlighted by the hypothetical. The correct breakdown depends on goals. If someone is stabbed with a knife, the important cause(s) of death won't be "because a lot of cells couldn't synthesize ATP anymore", and probably not " saying the wrong thing to Stabby McStabberson."
- graphe 3y ago
  Midazolam, Propofol and Rocuronium or Cisatracurium overdose at 13,241 is an acceptable cause of death. You'd best consider COVID-19 to be asphyxiation, low blood oxygen or natural causes.

by graphe 3y ago

The number by COVID is 19,716. Euthanasia is absent on here but is 13,241 for context. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euthanasia_in_Canada

lukev 3y ago

Regardless of one's opinions on if MAID is a good idea, it seems unfair to regard it as a "cause of death". Wouldn't that be more correctly attributable to the underlying condition?

Eumenes 3y ago
You can say the same thing in regards to how the CDC lumps suicide into "gun violence" deaths but don't blame sleeping pills, ropes, driving cars off bridges, or whatever OTC drug one can buy to reach the same conclusion. Weaponizing data is a government statisticians job.
- wk_end 3y ago
  Admittedly I'm just guessing here, but I strongly suspect that suicide by OTC drugs are indeed counted as drug overdoses by government statisticians, which seems like it would be the correct analogy?
  - Eumenes 3y ago
    Looks like they only have a certain set of drugs related to overdose deaths https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/drug-overdose-data.htm > Drug overdose deaths are identified using underlying cause-of-death codes from the Tenth Revision of ICD (ICD–10): X40–X44 (unintentional), X60–X64 (suicide), X85 (homicide), and Y10–Y14 (undetermined). Drug overdose deaths involving selected drug categories are identified by specific multiple cause-of-death codes. Drug categories presented include: heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics, including morphine and codeine, and semisynthetic opioids, including drugs such as oxycodone, hydrocodone, hydromorphone, and oxymorphone (T40.2); methadone, a synthetic opioid (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone, including drugs such as fentanyl and tramadol (T40.4); cocaine (T40.5); and psychostimulants with abuse potential, which includes methamphetamine (T43.6). Opioid overdose deaths are identified by the presence of any of the following multiple cause-of-death codes: opium (T40.0); heroin (T40.1); natural opioid analgesics (T40.2); methadone (T40.3); synthetic opioid analgesics other than methadone (T40.4); or other and unspecified narcotics (T40.6). This latter category includes drug overdose deaths where ‘opioid’ is reported without more specific information to assign a more specific ICD–10 code (T40.0–T40.4) (4,5). Among deaths with an underlying cause of drug overdose, the percentage with at least one drug or drug class specified is defined as that with at least one ICD–10 multiple cause-of-death code in the range T36–T50.8. Two additional categories were added based on CDC’s Opioid Overdose Indicator Support Toolkit (6): drug overdose deaths involving natural, semi-synthetic, or synthetic opioids, including methadone (T40.2–T40.4); drug overdose deaths involving natural and semi-synthetic opioids, and methadone (T40.2–T40.3). These new categories, which are a combination of existing categories, are not displayed on the default figure to facilitate ease of display of the main drug categories, but are accessible through the drop-down box that allows for selection of specific drug categories.
xeckr 3y ago
If someone shoots themselves, the proximal cause of death is "self-inflicted gunshot wound", not "depression".
herodotus 3y ago
When a person with an incurable terminal disease chooses MAID, the disease itself is listed as the cause of death on the death certificate.
chrisco255 3y ago
No, if one ends their life prematurely by suicide, then suicide is the cause of death.
- Jerrrry 3y ago
  [flagged]
- Terr_ 3y ago
  There are situations where that statistic/categorization is meaningful, but not in this context of trying to rank different causative diseases and public health risks. For example, imagine that 99% of all the euthanized are people who chose it after a diagnosis of the "Insane Agony Virus." Obviously we would want all those mortal data-points to get counted as reasons to fight IAV, even if only a tiny number of people died because the virus finally turned their brain to mush after weeks of thrashing about on a table in mind-breaking pain.
  - chrisco255 3y ago
    Because secondary effects are impossible to untangle or verify. Maybe IAV is just a made up term that people use, or far more people believe that they have IAV than is actually the case, or that they are wrongly convinced that IAV is incurable or untreatable, or the medical system has been perversely incentivized to encourage medically assisted suicide in the case of IAV diagnosis, or it's actually the case that it's not IAV causing the agony but actually a prescription drug side effect that interacts with the brain in such a way as to invoke IAV in certain cases, etc etc. None of that is science, of course. Separately, there should be a list of rationalizations for victims that undergo medically assisted suicide. And it should be analyzed to find ways to reduce the number of suicides.
    - Terr_ 3y ago
      I read that as "What-If Something Completely Different Instead", rather than engaging with the point being highlighted by the hypothetical. The correct breakdown depends on goals. If someone is stabbed with a knife, the important cause(s) of death won't be "because a lot of cells couldn't synthesize ATP anymore", and probably not " saying the wrong thing to Stabby McStabberson."
graphe 3y ago
Midazolam, Propofol and Rocuronium or Cisatracurium overdose at 13,241 is an acceptable cause of death. You'd best consider COVID-19 to be asphyxiation, low blood oxygen or natural causes.