7 ms·

This whole thing is so incredibly overblown. Advertisers can flee (although the article only says X is on pace to lose about 75 million) but unless the users do

This whole thing is so incredibly overblown. Advertisers can flee (although the article only says X is on pace to lose about 75 million) but unless the users do, it's meaningless and they'll come back. Media Matters is a professional political psychological manipulation outfit. Musk's tweets were dumb and offensive, but Media Matters is milking this for every penny it's worth and trying to make it seem much larger than it is. (as they are incentivized to do).

mindslight 3y ago
Reactionary talk radio has tons of listeners, but few if any mainstream advertisers. It's all pointers to other demagogues, dubious legal services, prepper supplies, and overpriced gimmicks where the value add is the political identity marketing itself. I don't see why Twitter would end up any different.
rsynnott 3y ago
Losing 75 million _through the end of the year_, over something which happened in mid November, is non-trivial. Like, this is not the total bill for Musk spouting his mouth off forever and ever.
lettergram 3y ago
I doubt it's even $10m losses. To your point -- presumably, if it's cheap enough people will start advertising who can't normally afford it.
- crowcroft 3y ago
  I would point out that advertising $$$s is basically zero sum. I agree with the premise that if $75m is removed from the supply prices will go down and then new $$$s will come into the platform, so it's not a 1:1 drop in revenue, but you probably aren't going to see $75m of new money enter the market. Of course Tesla or SpaceX could decide they want to start running ads?
dylan604 3y ago
I guess one has to buy into the concept that targeted advertising works to actually think that someone's ad appearing next to questionable content was there because the company sought out that content to appear next to. Of course, reality shows that targeted advertising doesn't work like that, and it's pretty much a random "who has the ad budget remaining to fund an ad display for this page load" which means it'll always be a major company with deep pockets for advertising
erehweb 3y ago
Counter: Pornhub has lots of users, but no big brands. Is X at that state? No, but the point is that brand safety is important, advertisers pay attention to it, and it impacts the publishers bottom line.
- deleted 3y ago
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- matt010 3y ago
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- jasonlotito 3y ago
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  - deleted 3y ago
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  - slowhadoken 3y ago
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    - jasonlotito 3y ago
      What's weird about not wanting to support someone using money that helps promote something you are against? I've got to admit, I think it's weird that you'd be willing to support things you disagree with. Edit: Further, my comment was commenting on the reference to brand safety. It's a personal anecdote, but it's perfectly fine in conversation. So, what was weird about an on-topic comment about not wanting to support a message I disagree with nor do business with those who are fine with supporting that message?
      - slowhadoken 3y ago
        My gripes about moral purchasing aside. It’s one thing to disagree with someone or not purchase their products. It’s another thing to call someone a hate monger for vague reasons. And I support free speech and discussion because I’m an American. I don’t know where you’re from but that’s how America works.
swatcoder 3y ago
Leaving gives advertisers an opportunity to measure the ROI of their ad spend to a degree they can't usually acheive. Rolling out a campaign is usually speculative and many were initiated when Twitter was exponentially growing, making quantitative assessment hard. Twitter (and the market) is no longer in that state. Whether they return probably has more to do with what they discover in this de facto A:B test than whether users stay or leave. And if they don't return, ad pricing will plummet and draw in more cheap and scam/fringe-market ads, changing the feel of the site for users. Musk is suing Media Matters not just because of his personal ego or sense of principle, but because the advertiser bleed it triggered could become a really bad thing for his darling.
fred_is_fred 3y ago
You are mixing up two events. MM reported on ads next to neo-nazi content AND Musk tweeted something anti-semitic. MM didn't make Musk do that nor was it even called out in their post because it happened before he said it.
nineplay 3y ago
Doubtless each of these companies have number-crunchers in back rooms trying to estimate the costs of tarnishing their brand if they continue to advertise on X. These sort of allegations can stick - Disney won't want to be remembered as the company that supported anti-Semitism. If X's reputation continues to go down, so will its advertisers. Plus not all users are alike. I've never been in a backroom, but I'm guessing that they are more concerned with the users with more spending capital.
adrr 3y ago
They cancelled "All-American Muslim" because they couldn't get advertisers even though it was averaging 1 million viewers per show which would made it one of the most popular show on TLC. https://ustvdb.com/networks/tlc/shows/ https://ustvdb.com/networks/tlc/shows/
- COGlory 3y ago
  I imagine TV advertisements are an entirely different beast. I'd suppose it's much more difficult to fill TV airtime because the barrier to creating a good TV advertisement is so high. And the expected revenue was probably pre-priced in, and also there's very limited airtime so why run something that isn't performing as well as something else could? Whereas, Twitter is infinite, and theoretical advertising is unlimited. Additionally, the barrier to a Twitter ad is much less. Just speculating, though.
- afuchs 3y ago
  > They cancelled "All-American Muslim" because they couldn't get advertisers even though it was averaging 1 million viewers per show which would made it one of the most popular show on TLC. To add context, this was after a few large companies canceled their ads for that show after push back from a very small number of evangelical christians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Muslim#Sponsorship_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Muslim#Sponsorshi... https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-attack-on-all-american-muslim https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-attack-on-a...

mindslight 3y ago

Reactionary talk radio has tons of listeners, but few if any mainstream advertisers. It's all pointers to other demagogues, dubious legal services, prepper supplies, and overpriced gimmicks where the value add is the political identity marketing itself. I don't see why Twitter would end up any different.

rsynnott 3y ago

Losing 75 million _through the end of the year_, over something which happened in mid November, is non-trivial. Like, this is not the total bill for Musk spouting his mouth off forever and ever.

lettergram 3y ago

I doubt it's even $10m losses. To your point -- presumably, if it's cheap enough people will start advertising who can't normally afford it.

crowcroft 3y ago
I would point out that advertising $$$s is basically zero sum. I agree with the premise that if $75m is removed from the supply prices will go down and then new $$$s will come into the platform, so it's not a 1:1 drop in revenue, but you probably aren't going to see $75m of new money enter the market. Of course Tesla or SpaceX could decide they want to start running ads?

dylan604 3y ago

I guess one has to buy into the concept that targeted advertising works to actually think that someone's ad appearing next to questionable content was there because the company sought out that content to appear next to. Of course, reality shows that targeted advertising doesn't work like that, and it's pretty much a random "who has the ad budget remaining to fund an ad display for this page load" which means it'll always be a major company with deep pockets for advertising

erehweb 3y ago

Counter: Pornhub has lots of users, but no big brands. Is X at that state? No, but the point is that brand safety is important, advertisers pay attention to it, and it impacts the publishers bottom line.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
matt010 3y ago
[flagged]
jasonlotito 3y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- slowhadoken 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jasonlotito 3y ago
    What's weird about not wanting to support someone using money that helps promote something you are against? I've got to admit, I think it's weird that you'd be willing to support things you disagree with. Edit: Further, my comment was commenting on the reference to brand safety. It's a personal anecdote, but it's perfectly fine in conversation. So, what was weird about an on-topic comment about not wanting to support a message I disagree with nor do business with those who are fine with supporting that message?
    - slowhadoken 3y ago
      My gripes about moral purchasing aside. It’s one thing to disagree with someone or not purchase their products. It’s another thing to call someone a hate monger for vague reasons. And I support free speech and discussion because I’m an American. I don’t know where you’re from but that’s how America works.

swatcoder 3y ago

Leaving gives advertisers an opportunity to measure the ROI of their ad spend to a degree they can't usually acheive. Rolling out a campaign is usually speculative and many were initiated when Twitter was exponentially growing, making quantitative assessment hard. Twitter (and the market) is no longer in that state. Whether they return probably has more to do with what they discover in this de facto A:B test than whether users stay or leave. And if they don't return, ad pricing will plummet and draw in more cheap and scam/fringe-market ads, changing the feel of the site for users. Musk is suing Media Matters not just because of his personal ego or sense of principle, but because the advertiser bleed it triggered could become a really bad thing for his darling.

fred_is_fred 3y ago

You are mixing up two events. MM reported on ads next to neo-nazi content AND Musk tweeted something anti-semitic. MM didn't make Musk do that nor was it even called out in their post because it happened before he said it.

nineplay 3y ago

Doubtless each of these companies have number-crunchers in back rooms trying to estimate the costs of tarnishing their brand if they continue to advertise on X. These sort of allegations can stick - Disney won't want to be remembered as the company that supported anti-Semitism. If X's reputation continues to go down, so will its advertisers. Plus not all users are alike. I've never been in a backroom, but I'm guessing that they are more concerned with the users with more spending capital.

adrr 3y ago

They cancelled "All-American Muslim" because they couldn't get advertisers even though it was averaging 1 million viewers per show which would made it one of the most popular show on TLC. https://ustvdb.com/networks/tlc/shows/ https://ustvdb.com/networks/tlc/shows/

COGlory 3y ago
I imagine TV advertisements are an entirely different beast. I'd suppose it's much more difficult to fill TV airtime because the barrier to creating a good TV advertisement is so high. And the expected revenue was probably pre-priced in, and also there's very limited airtime so why run something that isn't performing as well as something else could? Whereas, Twitter is infinite, and theoretical advertising is unlimited. Additionally, the barrier to a Twitter ad is much less. Just speculating, though.
afuchs 3y ago
> They cancelled "All-American Muslim" because they couldn't get advertisers even though it was averaging 1 million viewers per show which would made it one of the most popular show on TLC. To add context, this was after a few large companies canceled their ads for that show after push back from a very small number of evangelical christians: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Muslim#Sponsorship_controversy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_Muslim#Sponsorshi... https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-attack-on-all-american-muslim https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/the-attack-on-a...