4 ms·

This comment section is a perfect example of how little we know about health.

by moose44 3y ago

grecy 3y ago
"Eat food, mostly plants, not too much."
- jononomo 3y ago
  I have the opposite view. Eat food, entirely beef, as much as you'd like.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > entirely beef, as much as you'd like. That is a very good way to eat thousands of calories per day in excess of base metabolic need, which for nearly everyone will result in significant weight gain.
    - jononomo 3y ago
      Spoken like someone who thinks theoretically but without any practical experience with the diet! What actually happens is that you get satiated a LOT faster because beef is so nutrient dense, so you end up eating fewer calories and most people only eat two meals a day because they just stay satiated for so long. You also never experience the drowsiness that normally comes after eating. This is a zero carb diet which is high in protein, so you'll find yourself effortlessly putting on muscle and losing belly fat. When I say "entirely beef", that means "you can't put anything in your mouth that is not literally part of a cow" -- so that means no junk food, no sugar, no alcohol, not calories through drinking anything. It is the ultimate elimination diet because it is nutritionally complete yet ridiculously simple. People call it "the lion diet" and if you actually try it you'll end up in phenomenal shape and you'll feel like you're running on jet fuel.
      - moose44 3y ago
        As someone who's experimented with an animal-based diet—I can attest.
      - grecy 3y ago
        I've never gone full meat, but I've certainly eaten 5000+ clean(ish) calories a day while working out HARD and put on a significant amount of muscle. Happily eat a 28 oz steak for dinner, then 1000 calorie breakfast, then a thousand calorie shake.. I have to ask, where are you getting your fibre, vitamins and minerals from? Please tell me you're at least taking a multivitamin.
        jononomo 3y ago
        You don’t need any fiber in your diet. In fact, you’ll notice that if you stick with eating only beef then the volume of your poop will fall by 75% and you’ll spend 75% less time on the toilet. As for vitamins and minerals, beef has 100% of everything you need, especially if you eat all parts of the animal (liver, etc). Fresh beef even contains vitamin C. This is the diet our ancestors ate for hundreds of thousands of years. We were hunters, not gatherers.
    - helicalmix 3y ago
      which is good, if you want to gain weight
- sp3000 3y ago
  From Dr. Robert Lustig in his book, Metabolical (highly recommended): "Michael Pollan (full disclosure, he’s a friend), in his now-famous New York Times Magazine article, espoused seven simple words: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Three separate clauses, but I think that each clause is misleading. Eat food doesn’t take into account that some people may do better on a low-fat diet, while others may do better on a high-fat diet. Not too much doesn’t say how you are supposed to moderate that, as it doesn’t take into account food addiction or what generates satiety. And mostly plants doesn’t take into account that Coke, French fries, and Doritos are all plant-based. If you buy your organic, all-natural, GMO-free tortilla chips at Whole Foods, you’re still stuffing your liver and starving your gut—you’re just paying more for the privilege."
  - helicalmix 3y ago
    This feels like an overly complex response to a statement that's intentionally simple though. The whole point of Pollan's statement is to have simple guidelines that ignore optimizations in favor of directionally good flexibility, which makes me feel like Lustig either misses Pollan's point, or just believes in a completely different philosophy.
  - grecy 3y ago
    > doesn’t take into account that Coke, French fries, and Doritos are all plant-based By the very definition Pollan gives, none of those are food, they are lab concoctions that have been invented in the last few generations. Like the advice given about McDonalds by all the doctors and nutritionists in Super Size Me, a healthy person should never eat them. When Pollan says "eat food", he means "real" things that exist naturally. [Note 1] He also introduces the "grandma test" which is to say you shouldn't eat anything your grandma wouldn't recognize as food. A glass of black fizzy liquid sugar? no. Drink water. [Note 1] I often think about this like the periodic table. Many of the elements that have been on the table forever (low atomic numbers) can be found just lying around on the ground (Gold, Copper, etc.). They are "real". Almost all the ones added in the last few decades (nihonium, moscovium, tennessine) (high atomic numbers) never exist naturally and must be concocted in a lab under extremely specific circumstances. Often they only exist for a fraction of a second. They are "fake". Can you find an Apple, spinach, meat or fish out in nature? Yes - that's "real" food. Can you find Doritos or coke out in nature? No - that's not food.
swatcoder 3y ago
Alternately, it's example of how absurdly some obsess over it. Excepting bad luck and pretty-obvious excess, almost everybody will have about 6-7 decades of adulthood and maybe 1-2 decades of slowing down and feeling less capable in the last of those. If you can come to terms with that, and many do, there's not a lot to worry about. All the obsessing people get up to here is a kind of "premature optimization" that often sends people flailing around between research trends without any of the rigor or continuity that might have yeilded benefit anyway. It's a lot of time, effort, and mental energy stolen from the most vibrant and impactful stage of life in questionable hope of squeezing a teensy bit more out of the least.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

This comment section is a perfect example of how little we know about health.

grecy 3y ago

"Eat food, mostly plants, not too much."

jononomo 3y ago
I have the opposite view. Eat food, entirely beef, as much as you'd like.
- grecy 3y ago
  > entirely beef, as much as you'd like. That is a very good way to eat thousands of calories per day in excess of base metabolic need, which for nearly everyone will result in significant weight gain.
  - jononomo 3y ago
    Spoken like someone who thinks theoretically but without any practical experience with the diet! What actually happens is that you get satiated a LOT faster because beef is so nutrient dense, so you end up eating fewer calories and most people only eat two meals a day because they just stay satiated for so long. You also never experience the drowsiness that normally comes after eating. This is a zero carb diet which is high in protein, so you'll find yourself effortlessly putting on muscle and losing belly fat. When I say "entirely beef", that means "you can't put anything in your mouth that is not literally part of a cow" -- so that means no junk food, no sugar, no alcohol, not calories through drinking anything. It is the ultimate elimination diet because it is nutritionally complete yet ridiculously simple. People call it "the lion diet" and if you actually try it you'll end up in phenomenal shape and you'll feel like you're running on jet fuel.
    - moose44 3y ago
      As someone who's experimented with an animal-based diet—I can attest.
    - grecy 3y ago
      I've never gone full meat, but I've certainly eaten 5000+ clean(ish) calories a day while working out HARD and put on a significant amount of muscle. Happily eat a 28 oz steak for dinner, then 1000 calorie breakfast, then a thousand calorie shake.. I have to ask, where are you getting your fibre, vitamins and minerals from? Please tell me you're at least taking a multivitamin.
      - jononomo 3y ago
        You don’t need any fiber in your diet. In fact, you’ll notice that if you stick with eating only beef then the volume of your poop will fall by 75% and you’ll spend 75% less time on the toilet. As for vitamins and minerals, beef has 100% of everything you need, especially if you eat all parts of the animal (liver, etc). Fresh beef even contains vitamin C. This is the diet our ancestors ate for hundreds of thousands of years. We were hunters, not gatherers.
  - helicalmix 3y ago
    which is good, if you want to gain weight
sp3000 3y ago
From Dr. Robert Lustig in his book, Metabolical (highly recommended): "Michael Pollan (full disclosure, he’s a friend), in his now-famous New York Times Magazine article, espoused seven simple words: Eat food, not too much, mostly plants. Three separate clauses, but I think that each clause is misleading. Eat food doesn’t take into account that some people may do better on a low-fat diet, while others may do better on a high-fat diet. Not too much doesn’t say how you are supposed to moderate that, as it doesn’t take into account food addiction or what generates satiety. And mostly plants doesn’t take into account that Coke, French fries, and Doritos are all plant-based. If you buy your organic, all-natural, GMO-free tortilla chips at Whole Foods, you’re still stuffing your liver and starving your gut—you’re just paying more for the privilege."
- helicalmix 3y ago
  This feels like an overly complex response to a statement that's intentionally simple though. The whole point of Pollan's statement is to have simple guidelines that ignore optimizations in favor of directionally good flexibility, which makes me feel like Lustig either misses Pollan's point, or just believes in a completely different philosophy.
- grecy 3y ago
  > doesn’t take into account that Coke, French fries, and Doritos are all plant-based By the very definition Pollan gives, none of those are food, they are lab concoctions that have been invented in the last few generations. Like the advice given about McDonalds by all the doctors and nutritionists in Super Size Me, a healthy person should never eat them. When Pollan says "eat food", he means "real" things that exist naturally. [Note 1] He also introduces the "grandma test" which is to say you shouldn't eat anything your grandma wouldn't recognize as food. A glass of black fizzy liquid sugar? no. Drink water. [Note 1] I often think about this like the periodic table. Many of the elements that have been on the table forever (low atomic numbers) can be found just lying around on the ground (Gold, Copper, etc.). They are "real". Almost all the ones added in the last few decades (nihonium, moscovium, tennessine) (high atomic numbers) never exist naturally and must be concocted in a lab under extremely specific circumstances. Often they only exist for a fraction of a second. They are "fake". Can you find an Apple, spinach, meat or fish out in nature? Yes - that's "real" food. Can you find Doritos or coke out in nature? No - that's not food.

swatcoder 3y ago

Alternately, it's example of how absurdly some obsess over it. Excepting bad luck and pretty-obvious excess, almost everybody will have about 6-7 decades of adulthood and maybe 1-2 decades of slowing down and feeling less capable in the last of those. If you can come to terms with that, and many do, there's not a lot to worry about. All the obsessing people get up to here is a kind of "premature optimization" that often sends people flailing around between research trends without any of the rigor or continuity that might have yeilded benefit anyway. It's a lot of time, effort, and mental energy stolen from the most vibrant and impactful stage of life in questionable hope of squeezing a teensy bit more out of the least.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]