4 ms·

> One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky

> One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky EU regulations on financial markets. Eh, yes and no. A lot of the financial backing given to pro-Brexit politicians was from rich City types hoping to be deregulated, it's true. But London, the financial centre, had some of the lowest support for Brexit (outside of Scotland). Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support, and they've got no financial industry to speak of.

jacquesm 3y ago
What matters is not where the voters where, but where the money came from.
FirmwareBurner 3y ago
> Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support Areas with higher unemployment and lower economic development and opportunities often tend to vote on the extremes of the spectrum out of desperation. It's easy to think the EU or foreigners too your jobs away and that leaving the EU will somehow make it better.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  Ironically: those votes made their plight even worse. Spend enough marketing money and say the right magic words and you can easily get people to vote against their own interests. That's something I always hated about democracy: that people tend to be divided by talking points and emotional issues that don't matter all that much and then vote into power parties that will rob them blind. Case in point: in NL we have had a center-right coalition for a really long time. But that presumes that the fraction of people that voted for the main party (VVD) is wealthy enough that the VVD is accurately reflecting their interests. They don't! But immigration policy allowed the VVD to get a whole raft of people to vote for them. Such divide and conquer tactics are really nasty and subvert democracy at its core, it allows a few wealthy individuals (not quite 'the elite', but definitely the top 10% or so) to use democracy as the ultimate form of regulatory capture: it makes them become the regulators bosses, and they get to make the laws as well. In almost any normal society the 'left' would be 80 to 90% of the vote and if it isn't that's usually because of some demagogue or trick, immigration, religion, frustrations about various (often perceived) injustices and so on.
  - blibble 3y ago
    > Spend enough marketing money and say the right magic words and you can easily get people to vote against their own interests. again, total rubbish the working class mostly voted against mass low-skilled immigration from the EU it was very much in their interests to cut off this stream of competition, and a few years later... https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-... to me it seems like they knew exactly what they were voting for (vs. EU regional development fund money for the town's middle class opera house/cultural centre/...)
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-... Hmm, the article is from February 2022, aka right when we had "peak economy" just before the wordlwide shit hit the fan and everything tanked again, so I'm curious how much of that wage grows was just due to the Covid money printing boom that drove up demand in all sectors, coupled with reduced immigration due to Covid travel restrictions, is the true cause of this this wage boost instead it being the cause of just "EU workers diluted our wages". >it was very much in their interests to cut off this stream of competition Except now they have even more competition from outside the EU, with the UK reaching migration records as of recently. And non-EU cheap labor tends to be even cheaper compared to cheap EU labor. Of course the pandemic economic boom coupled with temporary cutting off of migration due to covid travel restrictions would cause wages to spike in 2020-2022 but that could very well be temporary now with the increase migration from non-EU countries and with lower investments into the UK due to the lack of EU membership bringing the labor demand back down within the next 10+ years. My point is only time will tell whether Brexit will or will not improve working class wages, the past ~3 years were a anomaly on many fronts. We'll just have to wait and see.
      - blibble 3y ago
        > Hmm, the article is from February 2022, aka right when we had "peak economy" just before the wordlwide shit hit the fan and everything tanked again, so I'm curious how much of that wage grows was just due to the Covid money printing boom that drove up demand in **all sectors** you answered your own question here > Except now they have even more competition from outside the EU, with the UK reaching migration records as of recently. And non-EU cheap labor tends to be even cheaper compared to cheap EU labor. there's a minimum salary requirement previously this didn't apply to labour from the EU, now it does so they've all but completely shut out low wage competition from the EU sounds like they got exactly what they wanted

jacquesm 3y ago

What matters is not where the voters where, but where the money came from.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

> Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support Areas with higher unemployment and lower economic development and opportunities often tend to vote on the extremes of the spectrum out of desperation. It's easy to think the EU or foreigners too your jobs away and that leaving the EU will somehow make it better.

jacquesm 3y ago
Ironically: those votes made their plight even worse. Spend enough marketing money and say the right magic words and you can easily get people to vote against their own interests. That's something I always hated about democracy: that people tend to be divided by talking points and emotional issues that don't matter all that much and then vote into power parties that will rob them blind. Case in point: in NL we have had a center-right coalition for a really long time. But that presumes that the fraction of people that voted for the main party (VVD) is wealthy enough that the VVD is accurately reflecting their interests. They don't! But immigration policy allowed the VVD to get a whole raft of people to vote for them. Such divide and conquer tactics are really nasty and subvert democracy at its core, it allows a few wealthy individuals (not quite 'the elite', but definitely the top 10% or so) to use democracy as the ultimate form of regulatory capture: it makes them become the regulators bosses, and they get to make the laws as well. In almost any normal society the 'left' would be 80 to 90% of the vote and if it isn't that's usually because of some demagogue or trick, immigration, religion, frustrations about various (often perceived) injustices and so on.
- blibble 3y ago
  > Spend enough marketing money and say the right magic words and you can easily get people to vote against their own interests. again, total rubbish the working class mostly voted against mass low-skilled immigration from the EU it was very much in their interests to cut off this stream of competition, and a few years later... https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-... to me it seems like they knew exactly what they were voting for (vs. EU regional development fund money for the town's middle class opera house/cultural centre/...)
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-sectors-most-reliant-eu-workers-indeed-2022-02-25/ https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/uk-sees-fastest-wage-rises-... Hmm, the article is from February 2022, aka right when we had "peak economy" just before the wordlwide shit hit the fan and everything tanked again, so I'm curious how much of that wage grows was just due to the Covid money printing boom that drove up demand in all sectors, coupled with reduced immigration due to Covid travel restrictions, is the true cause of this this wage boost instead it being the cause of just "EU workers diluted our wages". >it was very much in their interests to cut off this stream of competition Except now they have even more competition from outside the EU, with the UK reaching migration records as of recently. And non-EU cheap labor tends to be even cheaper compared to cheap EU labor. Of course the pandemic economic boom coupled with temporary cutting off of migration due to covid travel restrictions would cause wages to spike in 2020-2022 but that could very well be temporary now with the increase migration from non-EU countries and with lower investments into the UK due to the lack of EU membership bringing the labor demand back down within the next 10+ years. My point is only time will tell whether Brexit will or will not improve working class wages, the past ~3 years were a anomaly on many fronts. We'll just have to wait and see.
    - blibble 3y ago
      > Hmm, the article is from February 2022, aka right when we had "peak economy" just before the wordlwide shit hit the fan and everything tanked again, so I'm curious how much of that wage grows was just due to the Covid money printing boom that drove up demand in **all sectors** you answered your own question here > Except now they have even more competition from outside the EU, with the UK reaching migration records as of recently. And non-EU cheap labor tends to be even cheaper compared to cheap EU labor. there's a minimum salary requirement previously this didn't apply to labour from the EU, now it does so they've all but completely shut out low wage competition from the EU sounds like they got exactly what they wanted