4 ms·

> But leaving the EU doesn't automatically turn your country into Switzerland or Norway like the UK expected. this was never expected or mentioned by anyone

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
Oh it was, and a lot, by both pro-Brexit parties and advocates, you probably don't remember. They kept pointing at Switzerland and Norway as arguments of how well you can succeed without the EU.
- smsm42 3y ago
  There's a difference between saying "it's possible to exist without EU - see countries X and Y as an example" and "if we leave EU we will turn immediately into country X or Y". The first is reasonable argument, the second is completely ridiculous.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    There is a difference indeed, but that difference was completely ignored when the referendum slogans were shouted precisely to lie to people that if they left the EU they would be in the same position as Switzerland and Norway which is an appealing prospect.
    - blibble 3y ago
      > when the referendum slogans were shouted precisely to lie to people that if they left the EU they would be in the same position as Switzerland and Norway which is an appealing prospect. no-one ever said this they were used as examples of countries that are successful despite being outside the EU not that the UK would "be in the same position" if it left, i.e. becoming 10x richer per capita or starting to mass produce cuckoo clocks
      - troupo 3y ago
        > they were used as examples of countries that are successful despite being outside the EU Completely ignoring the fact that both countries are 100% aligned with EU on basically all laws and regulations, have open borders with the EU etc. etc. etc.
    - smsm42 3y ago
      Could you bring a couple of examples of such slogans?
      - greycol 3y ago
        The closest I can come up with: "Singapore on the Thames" But I'd assume it's more remainers pointing out that GB wouldn't be like Norway or Switzerland being dismissed as "Project Fear" and rembering the double negative as a positve affirmation by the brexit shysters.
- yawpitch 3y ago
  Wait… so they just straight-up lied to the public by simply eliding the most likely outcome? Shocking.
jacquesm 3y ago
Hm. It actually was. One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky EU regulations on financial markets. Small detail: it was the EU acting on behalf of the US that was the foundation for a lot of these regulations (mostly the fall out of a couple of really bad episodes) and Switzerland, one of the few hold-outs eventually also caved in to US pressure. So that sentiment was definitely there but it didn't work out. Meanwhile the UK is 100 billion(!) per year short compared to the in-the-EU alternative https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is... . Of course the marketeers working for the relatively wealthy fraction of the UK got paid handsomely. That wealthy fraction finds themselves without a hairs breadth of Brussels interference to enrich themselves further at the expense of the rest of the population in the UK, and they don't really care: they are now the largest fish in a much smaller pond and as long as the smaller fish can be kept in line they will make bank. Not that any of the smaller fish would ever admit to being duped, after all this is a team sport and what matters is that your team wins, not that that which you have won is actually a step back.
- michaelt 3y ago
  > One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky EU regulations on financial markets. Eh, yes and no. A lot of the financial backing given to pro-Brexit politicians was from rich City types hoping to be deregulated, it's true. But London, the financial centre, had some of the lowest support for Brexit (outside of Scotland). Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support, and they've got no financial industry to speak of.
  - jacquesm 3y ago
    What matters is not where the voters where, but where the money came from.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    > Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support Areas with higher unemployment and lower economic development and opportunities often tend to vote on the extremes of the spectrum out of desperation. It's easy to think the EU or foreigners too your jobs away and that leaving the EU will somehow make it better.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

Oh it was, and a lot, by both pro-Brexit parties and advocates, you probably don't remember. They kept pointing at Switzerland and Norway as arguments of how well you can succeed without the EU.

smsm42 3y ago
There's a difference between saying "it's possible to exist without EU - see countries X and Y as an example" and "if we leave EU we will turn immediately into country X or Y". The first is reasonable argument, the second is completely ridiculous.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  There is a difference indeed, but that difference was completely ignored when the referendum slogans were shouted precisely to lie to people that if they left the EU they would be in the same position as Switzerland and Norway which is an appealing prospect.
  - blibble 3y ago
    > when the referendum slogans were shouted precisely to lie to people that if they left the EU they would be in the same position as Switzerland and Norway which is an appealing prospect. no-one ever said this they were used as examples of countries that are successful despite being outside the EU not that the UK would "be in the same position" if it left, i.e. becoming 10x richer per capita or starting to mass produce cuckoo clocks
    - troupo 3y ago
      > they were used as examples of countries that are successful despite being outside the EU Completely ignoring the fact that both countries are 100% aligned with EU on basically all laws and regulations, have open borders with the EU etc. etc. etc.
  - smsm42 3y ago
    Could you bring a couple of examples of such slogans?
    - greycol 3y ago
      The closest I can come up with: "Singapore on the Thames" But I'd assume it's more remainers pointing out that GB wouldn't be like Norway or Switzerland being dismissed as "Project Fear" and rembering the double negative as a positve affirmation by the brexit shysters.
yawpitch 3y ago
Wait… so they just straight-up lied to the public by simply eliding the most likely outcome? Shocking.

jacquesm 3y ago

Hm. It actually was. One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky EU regulations on financial markets. Small detail: it was the EU acting on behalf of the US that was the foundation for a lot of these regulations (mostly the fall out of a couple of really bad episodes) and Switzerland, one of the few hold-outs eventually also caved in to US pressure. So that sentiment was definitely there but it didn't work out. Meanwhile the UK is 100 billion(!) per year short compared to the in-the-EU alternative https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is-costing-the-uk-100-billion-a-year-in-lost-output https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-01-31/brexit-is... . Of course the marketeers working for the relatively wealthy fraction of the UK got paid handsomely. That wealthy fraction finds themselves without a hairs breadth of Brussels interference to enrich themselves further at the expense of the rest of the population in the UK, and they don't really care: they are now the largest fish in a much smaller pond and as long as the smaller fish can be kept in line they will make bank. Not that any of the smaller fish would ever admit to being duped, after all this is a team sport and what matters is that your team wins, not that that which you have won is actually a step back.

michaelt 3y ago
> One of the major reasons the UK left the EU is because it would turn the UK into the financial center that it once was not having to deal with all these pesky EU regulations on financial markets. Eh, yes and no. A lot of the financial backing given to pro-Brexit politicians was from rich City types hoping to be deregulated, it's true. But London, the financial centre, had some of the lowest support for Brexit (outside of Scotland). Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support, and they've got no financial industry to speak of.
- jacquesm 3y ago
  What matters is not where the voters where, but where the money came from.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  > Areas like the West Midlands and Yorkshire had the highest levels of support Areas with higher unemployment and lower economic development and opportunities often tend to vote on the extremes of the spectrum out of desperation. It's easy to think the EU or foreigners too your jobs away and that leaving the EU will somehow make it better.