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Sure, tell that to people of Ukraine.
by deely3 3y ago
Sure, tell that to people of Ukraine.
- JumpCrisscross 3y agoSeriously. How many lives would have been saved if Kyiv had kept some of her nukes?
- supergirl 3y agoofficially, ukraine could not use them on their own. only russia had the "launch codes". part of the reason why they gave them up in the first place. not sure how much of a problem that is in practice. in any case, ukraine would have also needed the resources to maintain them which is no easy task. so I guess the answer is: we'll never know if it had any impact.
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoThey were soviet nukes. They had as much control over them as Germany has over the US nukes parked in Germany.
- fl7305 3y agoUS nukes in Germany are guarded by US troops. Who guarded the ex-Soviet nukes in Ukraine? Ukrainian troops, or Russian?
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoSoviet.
- fl7305 3y agoThe Soviet Union was dissolved in 1991. We are talking about the time after that, when Ukraine became an independent country. Since Russia had to negotiate to transfer the weapons from Ukraine to Russia, it stands to reason that Russia did not physically control them. Otherwise, it would just have transferred them on its own. Do you have any sources to back up your claims in this thread?
- delfinom 3y agoThose nukes were in definite Ukrainian possession. Also, Ukraine was a significant engineering powerhouse while part of the Soviet Union, they had the people to both build and maintain nukes.
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoNo, they weren't.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoUS nukes in Germany are actively controlled and operated by the US military. If the US dissolved you better believe Germany would have the technical know-how to begin operating those facilities and weapons themselves, if they wanted to.
- CrzyLngPwd 3y agoForget about if the US dissolved. That's just noise. What you are saying is that Germany could use US nukes, and so is de facto a nuclear-armed nation, and so is any country that hosts US nukes.
- fl7305 3y agoYou first wrote: > They were soviet nukes. They had as much control over them as Germany has over the US nukes parked in Germany. The Soviet Union ceased to exist in 1991. We are talking about what happened after that. You compared the situation with US nukes in Germany today. But that is not the same situation at all. The US has not ceased to exist like the Soviet Union did. And if it did, it is far from obvious which US states will control the nukes in the mainland ex-USA. That would be the parallel with the Soviet Union and Ukraine/Russia. Not US nukes in a foreign state.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoWhat I am saying is that if the US dissolved, similar to the Soviet Union in your example, there isn't anything technically preventing Germany from being able to take over the nukes. Do you not see a difference in comparing post-USSR Ukraine with Germany while allied with the very much alive US? Hosting US military installations that house nuclear weapons is very different from hosting abandoned nuclear weapons of a state actor that no longer exists.
- flagrant_taco 3y agoIt's hard to predict how that game of chicken would have played it. It seems likely that Russia may not have invaded of Ukraine had nukes, if they believed Ukraine would use them. The entire scenario rewrites 30 years of history, everything would be different. Would Russia have invaded? Would Ukraine have made itself more of an international player if it were on the list of nuclear powers? Would Ukraine have actually used nukes after an invasion? Could their allies have pressured Ukraine to avoid a nuclear war? Would Russia be in the same position or is today if Ukraine left the USSR as a nuclear power?
- baybal2 3y ago[dead]
- bandyaboot 3y agoYeah but at the time having fewer unstable countries with nukes was a rational decision.