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I used to think like this that it was a self-inflicted American thing. After talking with a number of Europeans, Australias, etc it seems to be a broad problem

I used to think like this that it was a self-inflicted American thing. After talking with a number of Europeans, Australias, etc it seems to be a broad problem in most westernized countries. If it were purely some single thing or circumstance of politics it should be less widespread. There’s clearly some structural issue in western societies. It’s still possibly self-inflicted but not by a simple reason like lack of supply. Why would multiple Western & European countries have this same lack of supply? Is there a conflict of western values and an ideal of owning a home at all an issue with our population levels? Do our changing morals and increasing self centered-ness in our cultures lead our democracies to stall home building? I think we need more questions like these.

fulafel 3y ago
There's of course a selection bias here. If you are talking to the subset of people who live in big cities, you are by definition talking to people who are spending money to compete with others for the privilege of living in scarce housing.
TulliusCicero 3y ago
> It’s still possibly self-inflicted but not by a simple reason like lack of supply. No, it's exactly that. It's just that pretty much all the Western countries put in a bunch of regulations that made it harder to build things. These were for nominally good reasons -- protecting the environment, not running roughshod over local interests, not putting in 'nuisance' properties/buildings, etc. -- but the end result is that the pendulum swung too far in the other direction and it got super hard to build. Ask developers or even random people who try to build a new house or expand on their existing house and you'll hear similar stories where even basic things are a nightmare bureaucracy seemingly aimed at killing your dreams. Contrast that with Japan, where building is more straightforward, and even Tokyo rents aren't too crazy, not compared to the biggest Western cities.
- whoknowsidont 3y ago
  > put in a bunch of regulations that made it harder to build things. Is it regulations? Or is it home-owners and realtors voting against expanded housing projects? The problem is if you build more houses, there's entire tranche of people whose "investments" will be worth less. And for some reason we're afraid to tell them it was a mistake.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    > Is it regulations? Or is it home-owners and realtors voting against expanded housing projects? Those are the same thing. One is a motivation for the other.
    - whoknowsidont 3y ago
      That's fair! I, probably unfairly, split up regulations and "regulations" based on who profits and why.
- Incipient 3y ago
  Japan/Tokyo is not a good example, or not equivalent, as they have a shrinking population. At least in Australia, we haven't really had a housing crisis like this for a while. For whatever reason demand for housing spiked at the same time as the cost of materials and labour did, hence building is now incredibly expensive.
  - OccamsMirror 3y ago
    It's hard not to blame rampant immigration since COVID for Australia's housing woes.
  - TulliusCicero 3y ago
    > Japan/Tokyo is not a good example, or not equivalent, as they have a shrinking population. It's a good example because Tokyo was still growing for a very long time and yet fairly had reasonable rents despite an enormous metro area population that's significantly larger than any Western city.
lamontcg 3y ago
> If it were purely some single thing or circumstance of politics it should be less widespread. There’s clearly some structural issue in western societies. It’s still possibly self-inflicted but not by a simple reason like lack of supply. It is due to ZIRP for the past 10 years[*] in the USD 800# gorilla of a currency / economic area. Due to a large financial system in the US and Western Europe the liquidity flows into the financial system create asset bubbles instead of downstream inflation, and due to financing that affects housing as well. Thanks to other policies like tax cuts for the rich the inflation is confined mostly to the financial sector and things-that-rich-people-buy more broadly with limited spillover into the 'real' economy and downstream wages. [*] and falling rates and 2% inflation targeting ever since the 1980s.

fulafel 3y ago

There's of course a selection bias here. If you are talking to the subset of people who live in big cities, you are by definition talking to people who are spending money to compete with others for the privilege of living in scarce housing.

TulliusCicero 3y ago

> It’s still possibly self-inflicted but not by a simple reason like lack of supply. No, it's exactly that. It's just that pretty much all the Western countries put in a bunch of regulations that made it harder to build things. These were for nominally good reasons -- protecting the environment, not running roughshod over local interests, not putting in 'nuisance' properties/buildings, etc. -- but the end result is that the pendulum swung too far in the other direction and it got super hard to build. Ask developers or even random people who try to build a new house or expand on their existing house and you'll hear similar stories where even basic things are a nightmare bureaucracy seemingly aimed at killing your dreams. Contrast that with Japan, where building is more straightforward, and even Tokyo rents aren't too crazy, not compared to the biggest Western cities.

whoknowsidont 3y ago
> put in a bunch of regulations that made it harder to build things. Is it regulations? Or is it home-owners and realtors voting against expanded housing projects? The problem is if you build more houses, there's entire tranche of people whose "investments" will be worth less. And for some reason we're afraid to tell them it was a mistake.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  > Is it regulations? Or is it home-owners and realtors voting against expanded housing projects? Those are the same thing. One is a motivation for the other.
  - whoknowsidont 3y ago
    That's fair! I, probably unfairly, split up regulations and "regulations" based on who profits and why.
Incipient 3y ago
Japan/Tokyo is not a good example, or not equivalent, as they have a shrinking population. At least in Australia, we haven't really had a housing crisis like this for a while. For whatever reason demand for housing spiked at the same time as the cost of materials and labour did, hence building is now incredibly expensive.
- OccamsMirror 3y ago
  It's hard not to blame rampant immigration since COVID for Australia's housing woes.
- TulliusCicero 3y ago
  > Japan/Tokyo is not a good example, or not equivalent, as they have a shrinking population. It's a good example because Tokyo was still growing for a very long time and yet fairly had reasonable rents despite an enormous metro area population that's significantly larger than any Western city.

lamontcg 3y ago

> If it were purely some single thing or circumstance of politics it should be less widespread. There’s clearly some structural issue in western societies. It’s still possibly self-inflicted but not by a simple reason like lack of supply. It is due to ZIRP for the past 10 years[*] in the USD 800# gorilla of a currency / economic area. Due to a large financial system in the US and Western Europe the liquidity flows into the financial system create asset bubbles instead of downstream inflation, and due to financing that affects housing as well. Thanks to other policies like tax cuts for the rich the inflation is confined mostly to the financial sector and things-that-rich-people-buy more broadly with limited spillover into the 'real' economy and downstream wages. [*] and falling rates and 2% inflation targeting ever since the 1980s.