5 ms·

> And trans people, why do people feel the need to criticize them? Let them be who they are, they're not harming anyone. The criticism is this: a woman's right

by fffs 3y ago

> And trans people, why do people feel the need to criticize them? Let them be who they are, they're not harming anyone. The criticism is this: a woman's right to a single-sex spaces cannot co-exist with the desire of a male to enter these spaces based on his claims of 'gender identity'. When the desires of the latter are prioritised above the needs of the former, this causes actual harm.

wkat4242 3y ago
Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? And really, they're not coming into the stall with anyone else. There's still private space there. So the purported problem just appears at the sink. Many places have unisex bathrooms now too. And/or not gender-matching cleaning staff. Also it's kinda rude misgendering trans females. They aren't males.
- valianteffort 3y ago
  >Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? Yes, there are plenty of men who do this. Misgendering? This isn't reddit the people on HN are not likely to kowtow to your lunatic revisionism, no matter how much anyone gets downvoted.
- nurettin 3y ago
  > Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? Maybe there is a gender which is biologically male, mentally female with lesbian tendencies, and they want to feel intimate that way. So why not?
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    I really think you have no idea what it involves to transition. It's not some pill you just pop. It's a difficult path of psychological evaluations and hormonal and surgical procedures. Expensive and very invasive and it's not granted on a whim. You really have to be female in your identity. I really don't see any CIS man taking hormones and surgery that make them more feminine just to get a peek in the girls' bathroom. They don't desecrate themselves that way. If they want to peek there's easier ways, like putting up cameras (sadly it happens) or putting on a maintenance overall or whatever. And for feeling intimate there's clubs and bars for that :) In my experience trans people usually tend to date other trans people or at least those in "LGBTQI+ and allies" circles. Because they know about the difficulties and feel more of a connection.
    - nurettin 3y ago
      I don't think you are responding to my message.
- fffs 3y ago
  This doesn't really address the criticism, for several reasons: 1. Males who identify as women are a heterogenous group that mostly consist of those who have not undergone the 'whole transition' (by which I assume you mean the cosmetic surgery on their genitals, alongside long-term hormonal intervention), with a significant proportion having no intention of doing so. Notably this group includes many males who do not pass as women at all, and who do not seem to put much effort into achieving that aim. Yet still insist that they should have access to women's single-sex spaces based on their 'gender identity'. 2. Women's bathrooms aren't the only single-sex space that males who identify as women desire to enter. Others include: prisons, locker rooms, refuges from domestic abuse and sexual violence, nude spas, sports competitions, support groups for issues that only apply to the female body like pregnancy, menstruation and menopause. Essentially any single-sex space may be coveted by these males. 3. It isn't sufficient to consider this issue only from the perspective of these males and the fulfillment of their desires. The women who these single-sex spaces are actually intended for, and who need these spaces for various reasons including safety, dignity and privacy, must be recognised too, and really should be the group centred in any discussion of this. Also regarding the objection to 'misgendering': this is another example of how women's spaces are imposed upon by these males. In this case, attempting to occupy the same linguistic space, and by doing so, removing language that may be used to distinguish them in discussions such as this.

by fffs 3y ago

wkat4242 3y ago

Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? And really, they're not coming into the stall with anyone else. There's still private space there. So the purported problem just appears at the sink. Many places have unisex bathrooms now too. And/or not gender-matching cleaning staff. Also it's kinda rude misgendering trans females. They aren't males.

valianteffort 3y ago
>Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? Yes, there are plenty of men who do this. Misgendering? This isn't reddit the people on HN are not likely to kowtow to your lunatic revisionism, no matter how much anyone gets downvoted.
nurettin 3y ago
> Do you really think people have a whole transition just to be able to sneak into the women's bathroom? Maybe there is a gender which is biologically male, mentally female with lesbian tendencies, and they want to feel intimate that way. So why not?
- wkat4242 3y ago
  I really think you have no idea what it involves to transition. It's not some pill you just pop. It's a difficult path of psychological evaluations and hormonal and surgical procedures. Expensive and very invasive and it's not granted on a whim. You really have to be female in your identity. I really don't see any CIS man taking hormones and surgery that make them more feminine just to get a peek in the girls' bathroom. They don't desecrate themselves that way. If they want to peek there's easier ways, like putting up cameras (sadly it happens) or putting on a maintenance overall or whatever. And for feeling intimate there's clubs and bars for that :) In my experience trans people usually tend to date other trans people or at least those in "LGBTQI+ and allies" circles. Because they know about the difficulties and feel more of a connection.
  - nurettin 3y ago
    I don't think you are responding to my message.
fffs 3y ago
This doesn't really address the criticism, for several reasons: 1. Males who identify as women are a heterogenous group that mostly consist of those who have not undergone the 'whole transition' (by which I assume you mean the cosmetic surgery on their genitals, alongside long-term hormonal intervention), with a significant proportion having no intention of doing so. Notably this group includes many males who do not pass as women at all, and who do not seem to put much effort into achieving that aim. Yet still insist that they should have access to women's single-sex spaces based on their 'gender identity'. 2. Women's bathrooms aren't the only single-sex space that males who identify as women desire to enter. Others include: prisons, locker rooms, refuges from domestic abuse and sexual violence, nude spas, sports competitions, support groups for issues that only apply to the female body like pregnancy, menstruation and menopause. Essentially any single-sex space may be coveted by these males. 3. It isn't sufficient to consider this issue only from the perspective of these males and the fulfillment of their desires. The women who these single-sex spaces are actually intended for, and who need these spaces for various reasons including safety, dignity and privacy, must be recognised too, and really should be the group centred in any discussion of this. Also regarding the objection to 'misgendering': this is another example of how women's spaces are imposed upon by these males. In this case, attempting to occupy the same linguistic space, and by doing so, removing language that may be used to distinguish them in discussions such as this.