5 ms·

I also don't care about malicious applications. I don't need to be protected from myself and didn't ask anyone to try.

by Lammy 3y ago

fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
Yeah, I find the creep of web app security mentality into the desktop to be a disaster. I want to be able to easily snoop on and control my GUI and I absolutely don’t want some display system to decide it knows better than me about this sort of thing.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >web app security mentality Having good security is essential to having a good app platform. You can see a real disaster in how malware operated on Windows a couple decades ago. >I want to be able to easily snoop on and control my GUI That don't mean that every random program needs to be able to. If a program is to be able to snoop, it needs to explicitly given the ability to do so.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
    > That don't mean that every random program needs to be able to. If a program is to be able to snoop, it needs to explicitly given the ability to do so. I strongly disagree with this, this is how you get inconsistent, annoying computing experiences
- dzaima 3y ago
  I'd perhaps say that security can be a good idea, but it needs to be done well for it to be so. And not at all implementing a potentially-abusable feature, while counting as "secure", is absolutely not doing it well.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  I think it's coming from developers with proprietary backgrounds who want to normalize the running of untrusted proprietary software on the Linux desktop, probably from some appstore with abysmal quality standards like Android and iOS. Contrast this mentality with sticking to Free software you downloaded from the official Debian repos.. why do I need to be protected against that software? I don't. These mobile-like desktop protection schemes are designed to facilitate mobile-like software consumption habits. Fuck all of that!
charcircuit 3y ago
Even if you are someone who wrote their whole user space from scratch and don't use the internet or open any files made by others, you are not representative of the larger userbase. A lot of people download random software or libraries that could be malware or even just buggy (eg. The time Steam unintentionally deleted user files). These people want to gain utility from all of this software without having to worry about the software being able to do bad things.
- mcpackieh 3y ago
  In other words you want to facilitate the bad user habits of Windows, iOS, Android, etc on the Linux desktop. Why do you even want to use the Linux desktop in the first place if you prefer those systems? Stick to what suits you instead of trying to assimilate the niche holdout systems like some sort desktop borg.
  - charcircuit 3y ago
    >you want to facilitate the bad user habits of Windows, iOS, Android, etc on the Linux desktop They are not bad user habits. They are only bad if the system is poorly designed. Unfortunately, the Linux desktop was poorly designed and the community is taking their sweet time to fix it. >Why do you even want to use the Linux desktop in the first place if you prefer those systems? It's just what I am used to using. I ackowledge the security of my computer sucks and I could be easily pwned at any time. >trying to assimilate the niche holdout systems like some sort desktop borg. I want the Linux desktop to be viable to use. Having competitive security compared to other operating systems is important. People shouldn't have to worry that using a Linux desktop will mean that a bad program can steal all of their accounts or delete all the files they have been working on. These type of things are preventable by the system and just blaming people that they should have known that what they downloaded was malware even if it is not at all obvious.
    - Lammy 3y ago
      That all sounds like a better case for sandboxing our data rather than sandboxing our applications. The application-centrism is an iOS-ism (and now a Mac-ism, but I repeat myself) designed to facilitate Apple’s economic model where they are the sole gatekeeper of what a computer is allowed to do. People blindly copy that model into the Free Software world because Apple are Very Rich and so everything they do is automatically a good idea.

I also don't care about malicious applications. I don't need to be protected from myself and didn't ask anyone to try.

by Lammy 3y ago

I also don't care about malicious applications. I don't need to be protected from myself and didn't ask anyone to try.

Yeah, I find the creep of web app security mentality into the desktop to be a disaster. I want to be able to easily snoop on and control my GUI and I absolutely don’t want some display system to decide it knows better than me about this sort of thing.

charcircuit 3y ago
>web app security mentality Having good security is essential to having a good app platform. You can see a real disaster in how malware operated on Windows a couple decades ago. >I want to be able to easily snoop on and control my GUI That don't mean that every random program needs to be able to. If a program is to be able to snoop, it needs to explicitly given the ability to do so.
- fiddlerwoaroof 3y ago
  > That don't mean that every random program needs to be able to. If a program is to be able to snoop, it needs to explicitly given the ability to do so. I strongly disagree with this, this is how you get inconsistent, annoying computing experiences
dzaima 3y ago
I'd perhaps say that security can be a good idea, but it needs to be done well for it to be so. And not at all implementing a potentially-abusable feature, while counting as "secure", is absolutely not doing it well.
mcpackieh 3y ago
I think it's coming from developers with proprietary backgrounds who want to normalize the running of untrusted proprietary software on the Linux desktop, probably from some appstore with abysmal quality standards like Android and iOS. Contrast this mentality with sticking to Free software you downloaded from the official Debian repos.. why do I need to be protected against that software? I don't. These mobile-like desktop protection schemes are designed to facilitate mobile-like software consumption habits. Fuck all of that!

charcircuit 3y ago

Even if you are someone who wrote their whole user space from scratch and don't use the internet or open any files made by others, you are not representative of the larger userbase. A lot of people download random software or libraries that could be malware or even just buggy (eg. The time Steam unintentionally deleted user files). These people want to gain utility from all of this software without having to worry about the software being able to do bad things.

mcpackieh 3y ago
In other words you want to facilitate the bad user habits of Windows, iOS, Android, etc on the Linux desktop. Why do you even want to use the Linux desktop in the first place if you prefer those systems? Stick to what suits you instead of trying to assimilate the niche holdout systems like some sort desktop borg.
- charcircuit 3y ago
  >you want to facilitate the bad user habits of Windows, iOS, Android, etc on the Linux desktop They are not bad user habits. They are only bad if the system is poorly designed. Unfortunately, the Linux desktop was poorly designed and the community is taking their sweet time to fix it. >Why do you even want to use the Linux desktop in the first place if you prefer those systems? It's just what I am used to using. I ackowledge the security of my computer sucks and I could be easily pwned at any time. >trying to assimilate the niche holdout systems like some sort desktop borg. I want the Linux desktop to be viable to use. Having competitive security compared to other operating systems is important. People shouldn't have to worry that using a Linux desktop will mean that a bad program can steal all of their accounts or delete all the files they have been working on. These type of things are preventable by the system and just blaming people that they should have known that what they downloaded was malware even if it is not at all obvious.
  - Lammy 3y ago
    That all sounds like a better case for sandboxing our data rather than sandboxing our applications. The application-centrism is an iOS-ism (and now a Mac-ism, but I repeat myself) designed to facilitate Apple’s economic model where they are the sole gatekeeper of what a computer is allowed to do. People blindly copy that model into the Free Software world because Apple are Very Rich and so everything they do is automatically a good idea.