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I think it's more interesting how Wayland has worked fine for me on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for the last 4 years on my personal machines and work machines, and y

I think it's more interesting how Wayland has worked fine for me on AMD, Intel, and Nvidia for the last 4 years on my personal machines and work machines, and yet here we are still talking about if it works or not.

k8svet 3y ago
If you pay enough attention you'll start to notice the same users names across comments and threads. Hallmarked by ignoring any replies, repeating their pet peeve, repeating experiences from years ago as if they were recent re-tries, and ignoring the laundry list of features possible with Wayland that are impossible or declared as never happening with X11. I made the mistake, I clicked the thread, and even replied. Meanwhile, I too have been using Wayland for years without issues. I'm on multiple video calls a day for work. I give screen share demos on Discord and Meet. Literally the only issue I've ever had was gamma ramp support, due to Nvidia, and they've even finally fixed that Idk, see the Pipewire threads for more examples. And/or insert the link to the XKCD comic about the foot pedal. It's all so damn entitled too, from seeming OSS adjacent folks that apparently don't understand the first thing about OSS work. Those same people will never even acknowledge that "Wayland devs" ARE THE DAMN "X11 devs" and they've all declared X11 bankrupt. Buncha people here need to start ramping up on their non-XWayland X11 codebase knowledge if they think they're going to go the MATE route or something.
- Ferret7446 3y ago
  Why should someone care about the laundry list of features that Wayland has if they don't need those features, and the feature that they do need doesn't work?
- rickstanley 3y ago
  I too, have been using Wayland for quite some time. I have some issues with it, but by no means they are deal-breaker, otherwise I'd have returned to Win10. Most issues (that I've faced) are related to Hardware Acceleration, which, by my knowledge, is a common issue in Linux ecosystem; others are NVidia related, when playing games. From my experience, overall: it's fine. (At least on KDE Plasma.)
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
bsder 3y ago
If I simply plug and unplug my laptop from the dock, my windows wind up randomly scattered between both laptop and monitor. Is that considered "works"? Lots of people have lots of complaints. I, myself, have more than a few. I'll go further. The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions. The problem is that a GUI is such an enormous pile of work that nobody can arise to compete with QT and GTK. Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up. And, it's worse than that globally. Mobile/Web GUI and Desktop GUI have fundamentally different abstractions. Yet, because a GUI is such a huge pile of code, nobody wants to have separate GUIs for Desktop and Mobile/Web. This is why something like Electron exists. No one wants any of the dumbass GUI toolkits--not Windows, not macOS and certainly not Gtk or Qt. And, yes, I pile Mobile and Web together. Most people now interact with Web via their phone. This is painful to me, but it is simply reality.
- Zambyte 3y ago
  > If I simply plug and unplug my laptop from the dock, my windows wind up randomly scattered between both laptop and monitor. Is that considered "works"? 1) that doesn't happen on my compositor 2) You can solve that yourself or pay someone to solve it for you. Unless you have a contract, you are not entitled to anyone elses time. > The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions. I simply don't care. It works for me, better than anything else I've tried on any operating system. The fact that you disagree with Wayland abstractions has no impact on my real world use. > [...] Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up. Great idea, looking forward to your (contractors?) repo :-)
- saati 3y ago
  > The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions Could you elaborate on this?
  - vetinari 3y ago

k8svet 3y ago

If you pay enough attention you'll start to notice the same users names across comments and threads. Hallmarked by ignoring any replies, repeating their pet peeve, repeating experiences from years ago as if they were recent re-tries, and ignoring the laundry list of features possible with Wayland that are impossible or declared as never happening with X11. I made the mistake, I clicked the thread, and even replied. Meanwhile, I too have been using Wayland for years without issues. I'm on multiple video calls a day for work. I give screen share demos on Discord and Meet. Literally the only issue I've ever had was gamma ramp support, due to Nvidia, and they've even finally fixed that Idk, see the Pipewire threads for more examples. And/or insert the link to the XKCD comic about the foot pedal. It's all so damn entitled too, from seeming OSS adjacent folks that apparently don't understand the first thing about OSS work. Those same people will never even acknowledge that "Wayland devs" ARE THE DAMN "X11 devs" and they've all declared X11 bankrupt. Buncha people here need to start ramping up on their non-XWayland X11 codebase knowledge if they think they're going to go the MATE route or something.

Ferret7446 3y ago
Why should someone care about the laundry list of features that Wayland has if they don't need those features, and the feature that they do need doesn't work?
rickstanley 3y ago
I too, have been using Wayland for quite some time. I have some issues with it, but by no means they are deal-breaker, otherwise I'd have returned to Win10. Most issues (that I've faced) are related to Hardware Acceleration, which, by my knowledge, is a common issue in Linux ecosystem; others are NVidia related, when playing games. From my experience, overall: it's fine. (At least on KDE Plasma.)
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

bsder 3y ago

If I simply plug and unplug my laptop from the dock, my windows wind up randomly scattered between both laptop and monitor. Is that considered "works"? Lots of people have lots of complaints. I, myself, have more than a few. I'll go further. The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions. The problem is that a GUI is such an enormous pile of work that nobody can arise to compete with QT and GTK. Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up. And, it's worse than that globally. Mobile/Web GUI and Desktop GUI have fundamentally different abstractions. Yet, because a GUI is such a huge pile of code, nobody wants to have separate GUIs for Desktop and Mobile/Web. This is why something like Electron exists. No one wants any of the dumbass GUI toolkits--not Windows, not macOS and certainly not Gtk or Qt. And, yes, I pile Mobile and Web together. Most people now interact with Web via their phone. This is painful to me, but it is simply reality.

Zambyte 3y ago
> If I simply plug and unplug my laptop from the dock, my windows wind up randomly scattered between both laptop and monitor. Is that considered "works"? 1) that doesn't happen on my compositor 2) You can solve that yourself or pay someone to solve it for you. Unless you have a contract, you are not entitled to anyone elses time. > The fundamental problem is that Wayland CAN NOT be fixed. The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions. I simply don't care. It works for me, better than anything else I've tried on any operating system. The fact that you disagree with Wayland abstractions has no impact on my real world use. > [...] Both of those toolkits are 20+ years old and desperately need to be redone from the ground up. Great idea, looking forward to your (contractors?) repo :-)
saati 3y ago
> The underlying design architecture is simply not correct for modern hardware and its abstractions Could you elaborate on this?
- vetinari 3y ago