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X11 today works better for more users than Wayland. No user will want to switch to something that provides a worse experience. Until these issues are ironed ou
by imiric 3y ago
X11 today works better for more users than Wayland. No user will want to switch to something that provides a worse experience.
Until these issues are ironed out, it's delusional to think that making Wayland the default will make users happy. Keep it as an experimental feature, and once it provides an objectively better experience for everyone, make it the default.
These technical discussions by folks in the trenches often miss the forest for the trees. Users don't care that X11 is difficult to support, develop and maintain. They just want a working system. By the looks of it from this GH issue, Wayland is also a pain for developers. What a sad state of affairs for Linux.
- hashworks 3y agoI guess I'm just hoping for some user that will be bugged enough by problems in Wayland that they decide to fix them. The chance of that increases with user count. I understand that the bulk "forest" of Linux users don't care about their window manager / desktop environment, but it's a higher number than in other operating systems. This approach wouldn't work in Windows or MacOS, in Linux it might.
- LtWorf 3y agoWhy learn about wayland and figure out how to fix things (and then probably have gnome developers never ever accept your fix) when you can just switch to Xorg in 3 seconds?
- yencabulator 3y agoBecause nobody maintains Xorg anymore. Wayland was started because the Xorg developers thought Xorg had come to the end of the road and was unfixable. You can think of Wayland as X12, except without copyright/trademark concerns.
- LtWorf 3y ago> Because nobody maintains Xorg anymore Latest release in June… https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/ https://www.x.org/wiki/Releases/ Doesn't seem extremely abandoned.
- hashworks 3y agoThere are good reasons to switch to Wayland. Features, security Standards and it being in active development are some of them. Of course no one has to use / switch to anything, but reaching a critical mass of users would be helpful in the long term.
- LtWorf 3y agoYou CAN use multiple sub-instances of Xorg for security… Nobody does it but firejail supports it.
- k8svet 3y agoSure, X11 "better", as long as you don't have high or mixed DPI screens, appreciate variable refresh rates, arbitrary scale factors, don't mind inconsistent tearing, aren't bothered by using a openly unmaintained, abandoned critical piece of desktop infra, etc. Otoh, if you're willing to buy a GPU from a vendor that doesn't snub Linux, or maybe god forbid change screenshot programs (doubt you even need to nowadays), you get plenty of benefits with Wayland. Edit: athe kind of person that downvotes comments like this are some of the least respectable, laughable, on the planet. Shove your fingers in your ears harder and make that tantrum louder. I'm sure it will convince X11 devs to abandon Wayland and return to the project they declared on life support, yup. That's how these things work.
- nzentzis 3y agoThe “oh, just don’t buy a GPU from NVidia” point is one I see made a lot when discussing Wayland’s failures, but it completely misses the fact that CUDA is currently the only viable option for GPU compute in many situations. If any significant part of your desktop usage involves such compute, that’s not a solution - or rather it’s a solution that renders your system less capable than it was before. Though in a sense that’s consistent with Wayland’s general “you’re holding it wrong” approach of shifting blame for any problems onto the person reporting them and concluding that anything that doesn’t work well isn’t a valid use-case anyway.
- LtWorf 3y agoI have never seen tearing on Xorg. I know in theory it might happen… but it's a non-issue since it doesn't happen.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- mort96 3y agoYou’re a very lucky guy. I have seen it in pretty much every X system I’ve used.
- imiric 3y ago