3 ms·

Your car has the same problem

JadeNB 3y ago
> Your car has the same problem My car is much less likely to be carrying hundreds of unidentified passengers, though, and any individual passenger messing around is harder to miss.
- eastbound 3y ago
  But more prone to infotainment saturating the CAN bus. Infotainment can be hacked using the 5G connection facilities which no-one takes seriously. The CAN bus also drives the brakes. I wouldn’t say it’s as easy as cutting the brake cables in 1950, but it’s as efficient.
  - sokoloff 3y ago
    > cutting the brake cables in 1950 Service brakes were typically hydraulic long before 1950. Only parking brakes would have been cable operated on the overwhelming majority of cars on the road in 1950 (or since).
- CatWChainsaw 3y ago
  If a car can receive OTA updates it can receive OTA hacks, no passenger in car required.
  - JadeNB 3y ago
    > If a car can receive OTA updates it can receive OTA hacks, no passenger in car required. True, but that seems like a different threat model—the title is "Can a Passenger Hack an Airplane?", so I was taking the analogue to be "Can a Passenger Hack a Car?" Specifically, the response > Your car has the same problem (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38423710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38423710) was to > wow, I came here to comment that of course passengers can't hack an airplane, at least in the sense of taking control of it, because there's no way that anyone with half a brain wouldn't have an absolute air gap between the passenger facing systems and the flight control systems. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38421652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38421652), meaning, I assume, that my car has the problem that there isn't such an air gap.
    - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
      Probably. I have a rust bucket, but it seems that a lot of newer models use bluetooth to pair phones with cars. I assume that car manufacturers have baked in at least some level of security to prevent every nearby rando from hijacking the car with bluetooth, but you know what they say about assumptions. And if the call is coming from inside the car (aka every passenger wants to play a different song and they all bombard the infotainment system with requests), are you just SOL?
davidw 3y ago
No one takes car safety very seriously though. Air travel has a better record of trying to eliminate dangerous things.

> Your car has the same problem My car is much less likely to be carrying hundreds of unidentified passengers, though, and any individual passenger messing around is harder to miss.

eastbound 3y ago
But more prone to infotainment saturating the CAN bus. Infotainment can be hacked using the 5G connection facilities which no-one takes seriously. The CAN bus also drives the brakes. I wouldn’t say it’s as easy as cutting the brake cables in 1950, but it’s as efficient.
- sokoloff 3y ago
  > cutting the brake cables in 1950 Service brakes were typically hydraulic long before 1950. Only parking brakes would have been cable operated on the overwhelming majority of cars on the road in 1950 (or since).
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
If a car can receive OTA updates it can receive OTA hacks, no passenger in car required.
- JadeNB 3y ago
  > If a car can receive OTA updates it can receive OTA hacks, no passenger in car required. True, but that seems like a different threat model—the title is "Can a Passenger Hack an Airplane?", so I was taking the analogue to be "Can a Passenger Hack a Car?" Specifically, the response > Your car has the same problem (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38423710 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38423710) was to > wow, I came here to comment that of course passengers can't hack an airplane, at least in the sense of taking control of it, because there's no way that anyone with half a brain wouldn't have an absolute air gap between the passenger facing systems and the flight control systems. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38421652 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38421652), meaning, I assume, that my car has the problem that there isn't such an air gap.
  - CatWChainsaw 3y ago
    Probably. I have a rust bucket, but it seems that a lot of newer models use bluetooth to pair phones with cars. I assume that car manufacturers have baked in at least some level of security to prevent every nearby rando from hijacking the car with bluetooth, but you know what they say about assumptions. And if the call is coming from inside the car (aka every passenger wants to play a different song and they all bombard the infotainment system with requests), are you just SOL?

davidw 3y ago

No one takes car safety very seriously though. Air travel has a better record of trying to eliminate dangerous things.