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Funny how back when renewables were expensive, these people said that the cost doesn't matter, but now that public investment has made them cheap, suddenly they

Funny how back when renewables were expensive, these people said that the cost doesn't matter, but now that public investment has made them cheap, suddenly they're against any energy source that isn't profitable on it's own, even if it has useful properties for decarbonization. This sort of cynical, tribal behaviour among people who claim to just want to stop climate change is pretty disappointing.

epistasis 3y ago
Back when renewables weren't cheap, I was cheering on nuclear, back in the 2000s. I was cheering on renewables to get cheaper, but I didn't think we should deploy a ton of renewables if nuclear could achieve the same carbon neutrality cheaper. Now, in the year 2023, when batteries plus solar are cheaper than new nuclear, IMHO the only same thing to do is to deploy massive amounts of solar wind and batteries, and cheer on nuclear trying to get cheaper. Demanding that we deploy a ton of expensive nuclear when we can't even reliably complete construction in the US is a fool's game. We don't have time to waste on nuclear, today. Which is to say, there is definitely some tribalism, but nuclear advocates are the most tribal people I encounter in energy discussions. There doesn't even seem to be much understanding of current and past projects among nuclear's advocates.
- eigenspace 3y ago
  Notice that I posted a 7 paragraph comment gushing about the great progress being made with renewable energy in Germany, and then attached a short footnote acknowledging "yeah I think a mistake was made with nuclear power but oh well", yet all the responses I've gotten are arguing about nuclear power. Nowhere in my post did I say Germany should be be abandoning renewables or that they should be heavily focusing on nuclear power. I just said that I think it's a shame that they threw out perfectly good reactors long before they reached the end of their lifetime out of irrational fears.
  - epistasis 3y ago
    Ah, I may have missed that in this long thread, and thought we were talking about new nuclear, apologies. But I also didn't mean to critique your comment, as much as riffing on it. I don't see the tribalism as much on HN or other forums, except for Twitter, wheee there appears to be a huuuuge amount of zealous advocates that seem impervious to stats, papers, and discussion. Agreed that existing nuclear should stick around as long as maintenance doesn't get more costly than replacing with other options.
thinkcontext 3y ago
Are aware that both the IRA and Infrastructure Act made substantial new public investments in nuclear? Be sure to send Biden a card thanking him.
- eigenspace 3y ago
  Yes, I was aware of that, why do you ask? > Be sure to send Biden a card thanking him. That'd be a particularly weird thing for me to do given that, as I said already in this very comment chain, I'm a Canadian living in Germany... I mean, it's great that the USA might invest more in nuclear power, but throwing some peanuts towards new reactors doesn't really fix the fact that they're a massive laggard when it comes to reducing emissions. There's a ton more work to be done than just building nuclear power plants.
Teever 3y ago
Are they actually the exact same people? Groups change you know.

epistasis 3y ago

Back when renewables weren't cheap, I was cheering on nuclear, back in the 2000s. I was cheering on renewables to get cheaper, but I didn't think we should deploy a ton of renewables if nuclear could achieve the same carbon neutrality cheaper. Now, in the year 2023, when batteries plus solar are cheaper than new nuclear, IMHO the only same thing to do is to deploy massive amounts of solar wind and batteries, and cheer on nuclear trying to get cheaper. Demanding that we deploy a ton of expensive nuclear when we can't even reliably complete construction in the US is a fool's game. We don't have time to waste on nuclear, today. Which is to say, there is definitely some tribalism, but nuclear advocates are the most tribal people I encounter in energy discussions. There doesn't even seem to be much understanding of current and past projects among nuclear's advocates.

eigenspace 3y ago
Notice that I posted a 7 paragraph comment gushing about the great progress being made with renewable energy in Germany, and then attached a short footnote acknowledging "yeah I think a mistake was made with nuclear power but oh well", yet all the responses I've gotten are arguing about nuclear power. Nowhere in my post did I say Germany should be be abandoning renewables or that they should be heavily focusing on nuclear power. I just said that I think it's a shame that they threw out perfectly good reactors long before they reached the end of their lifetime out of irrational fears.
- epistasis 3y ago
  Ah, I may have missed that in this long thread, and thought we were talking about new nuclear, apologies. But I also didn't mean to critique your comment, as much as riffing on it. I don't see the tribalism as much on HN or other forums, except for Twitter, wheee there appears to be a huuuuge amount of zealous advocates that seem impervious to stats, papers, and discussion. Agreed that existing nuclear should stick around as long as maintenance doesn't get more costly than replacing with other options.

thinkcontext 3y ago

Are aware that both the IRA and Infrastructure Act made substantial new public investments in nuclear? Be sure to send Biden a card thanking him.

eigenspace 3y ago
Yes, I was aware of that, why do you ask? > Be sure to send Biden a card thanking him. That'd be a particularly weird thing for me to do given that, as I said already in this very comment chain, I'm a Canadian living in Germany... I mean, it's great that the USA might invest more in nuclear power, but throwing some peanuts towards new reactors doesn't really fix the fact that they're a massive laggard when it comes to reducing emissions. There's a ton more work to be done than just building nuclear power plants.

Teever 3y ago

Are they actually the exact same people? Groups change you know.