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On landlines IIRC there is some feature that allows them to stay on the line after you hang up. So when you try to call the bank, you get the scammers again. h

On landlines IIRC there is some feature that allows them to stay on the line after you hang up. So when you try to call the bank, you get the scammers again. https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-hanging-up-on-a-uk-landline-call-not-terminate-the-connection https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/100268/does-han... So try to call the bank from a mobile.

ethanbond 3y ago
Now that is insane. Totally sounds like one of those things that paranoid old people believe about newfangled technology, but nope, just extremely weird protocol design.
- jjav 3y ago
  > Now that is insane. Remember it used to be a switched physical circuit. In the early days the switching was done by people, later it was automated. But you still had a circuit from phone to phone. When one side hung up, the circuit is still live. Eventually it timed out and the switch disconnected it, but it took a while (don't remember how long). So you could hang up a phone, walk to a different room and pick up another phone and the same call circuit was still live (as long as the other side didn't also hang up meanwhile).
- traceroute66 3y ago
  > just extremely weird protocol design Its not really weird if you look at it in context. People who are not Gen-Z whipper-snappers will recall the era. Before cell phones, before DECT home phones, before wireless cordless home phones you had fixed phones. You had a master socket and then, optionally, one or more secondary sockets (depending where you lived, you were either permitted to install these secondary sockets yourself, or you had to call in the telco to do it). Anyway, so what would happen is that your friend from school would call you up. Inevitably your parent would answer the phone because they were, for example, in the kitchen cooking your dinner. There would then be a shout across the house "Bobby its Johnny ... AGAIN !". The call-transfer process would involve your parent hanging up and you picking up the nearest secondary handset. Hence the exchange needed to keep the A-end of the call live whilst you completed the B-end "transfer". The same generation of people will also recall the ability to abuse the mechanism to quietly spy on someone else using the phone. :)
  - leereeves 3y ago
    In the US, Bobby would pick up the second handset before the parent hung up the first.
    - pulisse 3y ago
      Shouting across the house, "got it!"
      - netsharc 3y ago
        ... although they can hear each other through the devices in their hands. More likely the person in the kitchen just put the handset down on the table and continued cooking.
  - kylegordon 3y ago
    UK analogue strowger exchanges did not permit the called party to clear down the line - that was the job of the calling party. A legacy function of being 'patched through'. "Called Subscriber Held", a feature that was carried into early digital exchanges because people expected it to work in the manner you describe, even though afaik it was designed for the other purpose of keeping the line open whilst operators patched it through, trunk lines picked up the tone, etc. My grandpa was a something like chief engineer for the West Coast of Scotland phone network. I have so many questions I wish I could ask him these days.
  - dtech 3y ago
    It's still weird and unnecessary. This happened everywhere, but people just picked up the phone before the other person in the house would hang up. You mention it yourself because of the ability to spy.
dredmorbius 3y ago
It's worth noting that many landline phones now allow you to enter a number that you're intending to call, then pressing the call button at which point the number is automatically dialed. If the dial tone is heard at all, it is for a very brief period, and might be entirely missed. This would make the scam you're describing even more readily achieved.
- dredmorbius 3y ago
  On further reflection ... ... the autodial feature may well be waiting for dialtone in order to dial. I've not looked into this and you're probably best off testing this yourself on your own equipment.
throwawaymobule 3y ago
This also exists (existed?) for mobile numbers, and was used by newspapers to 'hack' certain celebrities' voicemail. Including some cases where they deleted existing messages when the mailbox was full, so they could get more.
- hermitcrab 3y ago
  I thought they just called their phones when they weren't in and used the default voicemail PIN (which most people don't change) to access their messages.
  - throwawaymobule 3y ago
    either default pin or guessed based on publicly available info. calling from their line was also done to get at more mailboxes.
pests 3y ago
This was, IIRC, a regional thing based on how the internal network was set up And all the legacy stuff. Half the country experienced this and the other half didn't so it always causes fun stories like this And expected gotchas from those who are learning it for the first time.

ethanbond 3y ago

Now that is insane. Totally sounds like one of those things that paranoid old people believe about newfangled technology, but nope, just extremely weird protocol design.

jjav 3y ago
> Now that is insane. Remember it used to be a switched physical circuit. In the early days the switching was done by people, later it was automated. But you still had a circuit from phone to phone. When one side hung up, the circuit is still live. Eventually it timed out and the switch disconnected it, but it took a while (don't remember how long). So you could hang up a phone, walk to a different room and pick up another phone and the same call circuit was still live (as long as the other side didn't also hang up meanwhile).
traceroute66 3y ago
> just extremely weird protocol design Its not really weird if you look at it in context. People who are not Gen-Z whipper-snappers will recall the era. Before cell phones, before DECT home phones, before wireless cordless home phones you had fixed phones. You had a master socket and then, optionally, one or more secondary sockets (depending where you lived, you were either permitted to install these secondary sockets yourself, or you had to call in the telco to do it). Anyway, so what would happen is that your friend from school would call you up. Inevitably your parent would answer the phone because they were, for example, in the kitchen cooking your dinner. There would then be a shout across the house "Bobby its Johnny ... AGAIN !". The call-transfer process would involve your parent hanging up and you picking up the nearest secondary handset. Hence the exchange needed to keep the A-end of the call live whilst you completed the B-end "transfer". The same generation of people will also recall the ability to abuse the mechanism to quietly spy on someone else using the phone. :)
- leereeves 3y ago
  In the US, Bobby would pick up the second handset before the parent hung up the first.
  - pulisse 3y ago
    Shouting across the house, "got it!"
    - netsharc 3y ago
      ... although they can hear each other through the devices in their hands. More likely the person in the kitchen just put the handset down on the table and continued cooking.
- kylegordon 3y ago
  UK analogue strowger exchanges did not permit the called party to clear down the line - that was the job of the calling party. A legacy function of being 'patched through'. "Called Subscriber Held", a feature that was carried into early digital exchanges because people expected it to work in the manner you describe, even though afaik it was designed for the other purpose of keeping the line open whilst operators patched it through, trunk lines picked up the tone, etc. My grandpa was a something like chief engineer for the West Coast of Scotland phone network. I have so many questions I wish I could ask him these days.
- dtech 3y ago
  It's still weird and unnecessary. This happened everywhere, but people just picked up the phone before the other person in the house would hang up. You mention it yourself because of the ability to spy.

dredmorbius 3y ago

It's worth noting that many landline phones now allow you to enter a number that you're intending to call, then pressing the call button at which point the number is automatically dialed. If the dial tone is heard at all, it is for a very brief period, and might be entirely missed. This would make the scam you're describing even more readily achieved.

dredmorbius 3y ago
On further reflection ... ... the autodial feature may well be waiting for dialtone in order to dial. I've not looked into this and you're probably best off testing this yourself on your own equipment.

throwawaymobule 3y ago

This also exists (existed?) for mobile numbers, and was used by newspapers to 'hack' certain celebrities' voicemail. Including some cases where they deleted existing messages when the mailbox was full, so they could get more.

hermitcrab 3y ago
I thought they just called their phones when they weren't in and used the default voicemail PIN (which most people don't change) to access their messages.
- throwawaymobule 3y ago
  either default pin or guessed based on publicly available info. calling from their line was also done to get at more mailboxes.

pests 3y ago

This was, IIRC, a regional thing based on how the internal network was set up And all the legacy stuff. Half the country experienced this and the other half didn't so it always causes fun stories like this And expected gotchas from those who are learning it for the first time.