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Sodium in Batteries: Shift May Herald Another Shakeup
- helsinkiandrew 3y agohttps://archive.is/aEb4q https://archive.is/aEb4q
- KennyBlanken 3y agoWhy do people keep linking to archive.*? It just endlessly redirects to captchas for large swaths of users. I've heard they have some tiff with Cloudflare or Firefox or I don't actually care, because I don't have this problem with any other site. Their site is unreachable, by their choice*. Find some other service that doesn't discriminate against users of the most popular open-source web browser, please.
- parineum 3y agoFeel free to post a link.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- AndrewDucker 3y agoBecause it works for us. We don't have any weird problems from having set things up in weird ways, and so we use it.
- thot_experiment 3y agoArchive specifically hates privacy. They want EDNS info and if you don't give it to them they will serve you garbage. They probably hate privacy because it makes it easier to deal with bots, so it's not really archive's fault, nor is it the end users fault for not wanting to share PII. Ultimately there are a lot of bad actors on the internet and that makes it hard to have nice things. It works for you because you are willing to have your rights eroded for comfort (a totally valid choice). https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828702 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828702
- helsinkiandrew 3y ago> .. or I don't actually care So why should we care? - make the case why posting archive.* is bad or post a working link yourself!
- alberth 3y agoWeight Isn’t the issue with sodium batteries, the weight (relative to lithium).
- kumarvvr 3y agoFor grid storage and renewable storage, weight hardly matters.
- makingstuffs 3y agoAccording to the article the main use of sodium based replacements would be in places where weight/size isn’t as much of an issue.
- RicoElectrico 3y agoLithium is only a small percentage of weight like 10%.
- margalabargala 3y agoAnd the lead in a lead acid battery is like 80% of the weight of that battery. This isn't really relevant, because the batteries being discussed are not "a lithium battery but with the lithium replaced by sodium". It's a whole new battery chemistry.
- patmorgan23 3y agoWeight doesn't really matter for fixed uses. Only mobile (read auto) uses)
- jeffrallen 3y agoI have a neighbor who's getting them for the bottom of his wings turbine on his farm. Will be interesting to see them.
- pkulak 3y agoThis is the other end of the solar/wind puzzle. And it will work in the same way: individual consumers operating in their best self interest. My power company just came out with a new rate plan that I jumped on: 8 cents for all but 5-9, which is 26 cents. It's pretty obvious the "duck curve" is slamming them pretty hard. I'm making it mostly work with creative home automation and timers on my car charger and water heater, but with just 6 kWh or so of batteries I could completely eliminate my peak power usage. I don't have any place to put solar panels on my property, so I'm looking forward to sodium batteries making this a viable way for me lower my electric bills.
- Maxion 3y agoThe key is really getting the costs down on batteries + the necessary inverter and charger.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- RetroTechie 3y agoAny power routed through batteries is expensive - compared with power pulled directly from grid / solar panels etc. Sodium ion batteries won't change that equation any time soon. But they can make whatever grid storage is installed (whether in homes, electric car, or grid scale), a lot cheaper. Some limited amount of such storage + some smarts to control when heavy users are run & when batteries are (dis)charged, can go a long way. Just 'flattening the curve' is enough.
- rootusrootus 3y agoThis is very true. A good quality inverter/charger with enough capacity to run a home is $$$$. Also need some kind of transfer switch to connect/disconnect the grid, and that's $$$$. It's hard to make a good case for it on ROI alone, you need to be solving some other problem, like frequent power interruptions if you live out in the sticks or something. But in that case batteries probably won't be enough so you need a generator anyway.
- thelastgallon 3y agoRelated: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38304405 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38025086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38025086 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38361094 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38361094 And this insightful comment about how to think about pack density (don't require nearly as much cooling and management systems as nickel-cobalt chemistries, and 160Wh/kg is good enough): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38363603 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38363603
- fwungy 3y agoBattery tech has deep and extensive research behind it. It is unlikely that a revolutionary breakthrough will happen at this point. Batteries have to balance so many factors: energy density, safety, cost, reliability, recharge characteristics, and they're all really important. We are in the incremental phase of battery technology advancement now. The options and their drawbacks are all well known.
- Berniek 3y agoBattery Technology is a bit of a handy distraction. The only solution is to move the "Duck Curve" to later in the day. So use batteries? well yes if you use them at the household WITHOUT solar. If you have solar + batteries you just increase the duck curve You can use centralized batteries but that probably means major upgrades to the distribution infrastructure. If the power companies would charge according to cost of supply (so ALL power is cheaper during the Duck Curve period) so you can charge the home battery during "duck Curve" and use it ONLY during the evening peak. But most power companies have multiple generator technology and use power generated by "cheaper" generators to subsidize the costly overnight or non renewable generation.