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>Basically everyone who consumes caffeine is a chronic user. Everyone I know of drinks it daily There goes HN with the health quackery again. Citation needed o

>Basically everyone who consumes caffeine is a chronic user. Everyone I know of drinks it daily There goes HN with the health quackery again. Citation needed other than your opinion on you circle of acquaintances. Drinking 300mg vs 50mg of caffeine a day are not the same, and lumping everyone under chronic just because you have a strong opinion on the topic is silly. In this case they define chronic as someone who consumes over 200mg per day but the article and paper itself is very weak as they did not accurately measure subject's caffeine intake, they just went on subject's self reported data("I drank a coffee and a red bull") and built estimations on that which is weak science as there's not a fixed amount of cafeine in a cup of coffee but can vary wildly.

morsch 3y ago
"Among those drinking coffee daily, almost 80 percent drank two or more cups while at home on a weekday." https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-drunk-by-americans-per-day/ https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-drunk-by... "The average American coffee drinker drinks just over 3 cups per day." https://www.ncausa.org/newsroom/nca-releases-atlas-of-american-coffee https://www.ncausa.org/newsroom/nca-releases-atlas-of-americ... 200 mg is about two cups of coffee. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-caffeine-in-coffee https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-caffeine-in-co...
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  That doesn't prove everyone who drinks coffee is a chronic consumer. Caffeine doses are not binary, as in either you don't drink any coffee at all or are a chronic consumer otherwise. What about those who consume it in small moderation? Just because other people abuse it doesn't mean those who do not suffer the exact same negative effects in the same manner. Of course studies will mostly focus on the cronic consumers as those will generally show the biggest symptoms and will be easier to study and draw conclusions versus the non coffee consumers, but that doesn't mean everyone is chronic consumer.
  - mort96 3y ago
    Those who consume it regularly, even in small amounts, are chronic consumers.
    - david-gpu 3y ago
      > Those who consume it regularly, even in small amounts, are chronic consumers Not as defined in the study we are discussing, which labels "chronic consumers" those who take more than 200mg of caffeine per day.
      - mort96 3y ago
        Thanks, that's an important point. Interesting way to define "chronic".
  - mahogany 3y ago
    It would help if you defined “chronic consumer” in this context, because consuming multiple cups of coffee a day certainly sounds chronic to me.
  - darthrupert 3y ago
    It's a reasonable assumption, given how addictive, plentiful and socially encouraged coffee is.
- KptMarchewa 3y ago
  Cups is not telling a lot. Are those two espressos, americanos, or something else?
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    I mean mostly they’re gonna be coffees
  - walthamstow 3y ago
    Americano is espresso + water so I don't think that particular distinction will matter
ben_w 3y ago
“Chronic” means “ongoing”, not “severe”. Given the details in the open access paper, I think this needs more study to find the threshold that matters, and also the highest number I found in this study with in browser search for “ mg” was 200 mg so arguing about 300 vs. 50 just seems silly.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >the highest number I found in this study with in browser search for “ mg” was 200 mg so arguing about 300 vs. 50 just seems silly. 200mg is not the highest number but the threshold they seem to define for chronic. There are definitely people who drink way more than 200mg as that's only about 2 cups of coffee. I assume heavy cafeine users go above 300mg.
  - ben_w 3y ago
    “In this study” is an important part of the sentence you quoted. Before learning about caffeine psychosis, my peak caffeine consumption was probably 8 cups/day where each cup was 2 table (not tea) spoons, so, ah, in retrospect terrifying: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=caffine%20in%2016%20tablespoons%20of%20instant%20coffee%20powder http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=caffine%20in%2016%20tab...
sandworm101 3y ago
If they are doing a red bull every day, caffeine might not be their primary health issue. And the glowing red eyes and increased physical strength might compensate for the potential brain plasticity issue.
cma 3y ago
There's a known widespread gene variant that changes caffeine metabolism pretty drastically, so that 300mg and 50mg can be pretty close to the same, if it is different people.

morsch 3y ago

"Among those drinking coffee daily, almost 80 percent drank two or more cups while at home on a weekday." https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-drunk-by-americans-per-day/ https://www.statista.com/chart/19524/cups-of-coffee-drunk-by... "The average American coffee drinker drinks just over 3 cups per day." https://www.ncausa.org/newsroom/nca-releases-atlas-of-american-coffee https://www.ncausa.org/newsroom/nca-releases-atlas-of-americ... 200 mg is about two cups of coffee. https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-caffeine-in-coffee https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/how-much-caffeine-in-co...

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
That doesn't prove everyone who drinks coffee is a chronic consumer. Caffeine doses are not binary, as in either you don't drink any coffee at all or are a chronic consumer otherwise. What about those who consume it in small moderation? Just because other people abuse it doesn't mean those who do not suffer the exact same negative effects in the same manner. Of course studies will mostly focus on the cronic consumers as those will generally show the biggest symptoms and will be easier to study and draw conclusions versus the non coffee consumers, but that doesn't mean everyone is chronic consumer.
- mort96 3y ago
  Those who consume it regularly, even in small amounts, are chronic consumers.
  - david-gpu 3y ago
    > Those who consume it regularly, even in small amounts, are chronic consumers Not as defined in the study we are discussing, which labels "chronic consumers" those who take more than 200mg of caffeine per day.
    - mort96 3y ago
      Thanks, that's an important point. Interesting way to define "chronic".
- mahogany 3y ago
  It would help if you defined “chronic consumer” in this context, because consuming multiple cups of coffee a day certainly sounds chronic to me.
- darthrupert 3y ago
  It's a reasonable assumption, given how addictive, plentiful and socially encouraged coffee is.
KptMarchewa 3y ago
Cups is not telling a lot. Are those two espressos, americanos, or something else?
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  I mean mostly they’re gonna be coffees
- walthamstow 3y ago
  Americano is espresso + water so I don't think that particular distinction will matter

ben_w 3y ago

“Chronic” means “ongoing”, not “severe”. Given the details in the open access paper, I think this needs more study to find the threshold that matters, and also the highest number I found in this study with in browser search for “ mg” was 200 mg so arguing about 300 vs. 50 just seems silly.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>the highest number I found in this study with in browser search for “ mg” was 200 mg so arguing about 300 vs. 50 just seems silly. 200mg is not the highest number but the threshold they seem to define for chronic. There are definitely people who drink way more than 200mg as that's only about 2 cups of coffee. I assume heavy cafeine users go above 300mg.
- ben_w 3y ago
  “In this study” is an important part of the sentence you quoted. Before learning about caffeine psychosis, my peak caffeine consumption was probably 8 cups/day where each cup was 2 table (not tea) spoons, so, ah, in retrospect terrifying: http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=caffine%20in%2016%20tablespoons%20of%20instant%20coffee%20powder http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=caffine%20in%2016%20tab...

sandworm101 3y ago

If they are doing a red bull every day, caffeine might not be their primary health issue. And the glowing red eyes and increased physical strength might compensate for the potential brain plasticity issue.

cma 3y ago

There's a known widespread gene variant that changes caffeine metabolism pretty drastically, so that 300mg and 50mg can be pretty close to the same, if it is different people.