4 ms·

This is creepy AF. “Had an affair with her when she was eleven.”. An affair. This is George Lucas, talking about the Marian character. G — I was thinking that

by tomcam 3y ago

This is creepy AF. “Had an affair with her when she was eleven.”. An affair. This is George Lucas, talking about the Marian character. G — I was thinking that this old guy could have been his mentor. He could have known this little girl when she was just a kid. Had an affair with her when she was eleven. L — And he was forty-two. G — He hasn’t seen her in twelve years. Now she’s twenty-two. It’s a real strange relationship. S — She had better be older than twenty-two. G — He’s thirty-five, and he knew her ten years ago when he was twenty-five and she was only twelve. G — It would be amusing to make her slightly young at the time. S — And promiscuous. She came onto him. G — Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it’s an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she’s sixteen or seventeen it’s not interesting anymore. But if she was fifteen and he was twenty-five and they actually had an affair the last time they met. And she was madly in love with him and he…

jzl 3y ago
This disturbing conversation has been public for many years and discussed ad nauseam. I’m not defending it, but just making sure that readers of this HN post don’t think it’s breaking news. Here’s a post from 2009 discussing it: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/indiana-jones-was-almost-a-sex-offender/ https://www.escapistmagazine.com/indiana-jones-was-almost-a-...
- tomcam 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - krustyburger 3y ago
    That’s a fancy word that doesn’t mean what you think it does. If you were serious that would “seem to be” a libelous thing to write about someone. Also, it’s fantastic that you think the world is reading this HN thread. Good thing you were here!
    - tomcam 3y ago
      Thanks for the correction. I did indeed mean pedophile. Good thing you were here!
- defrost 3y ago
  Child exploitation in the media industry has been known and commented upon for decades. Very much the reason why This Is Serious Mum's filmclip for If You're Not Famous at Fourteen, You're Finished from their 2001 De RigueurMortis was described as the Battleship Potemkin of rock video clips.
CamperBob2 3y ago
You can imagine Kasdan sitting there with an increasingly-horrified look on his face, wondering what he's gotten himself into. There's a lot of cringing and disillusionment in that conversation in general. It's not hard to see where "nuking the fridge" and other just plain stupid crap came from. Then there's the recurring incestuous theme "Let's make this look like (some ride) at Disney World." Meanwhile it's safe to say people at Disney were sitting around saying, "Let's make this look like (some Spielberg or Lucas movie)."
mongol 3y ago
You can look at it two ways. Either you see it as a reflection of Lucas' own values or desires. Or you see it as part of an artistic process, aiming to evoke emotions in the audience. In the first case, it is creepy. But to give example of the second case, this is the entire premise of a film like Lolita.
- koheripbal 3y ago
  11 is insane but the notion that a 16-17 year old girl can date a 22 year old boy was not so unusual in the 1970s.
  - mongol 3y ago
    I found this on Wikipedia under Age of consent: "In the United States, as late as the 1880s most states set the minimum age at ten to twelve (in Delaware, it was seven in 1895).[11] Inspired by the "Maiden Tribute" articles, female reformers in the U.S. initiated their own campaign,[12] which petitioned legislators to raise the legal minimum age to at least sixteen, with the ultimate goal to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was successful, with almost all states raising the minimum age to sixteen to eighteen years by 1920.[6][13]" "Raiders ..." take place in 1936. Was Marion older or younger than 11 by 1920? I don't know but I don't think it is outragous that a producer discusses such a story line at draft stage.
    - UncleSlacky 3y ago
      Meanwhile, 5 states currently have no minimum age for marriage, and another 35 permit underage marriage in some circumstances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#Underage_marriage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_Sta...
  - tzs 3y ago
    > [...] the notion that a 16-17 year old girl can date a 22 year old boy was not so unusual in the 1970s I don't know how unusual it is now, but in most of the world now it would be legal. Since laws against things widely seen as immoral tend to be easy to pass I'd guess that means that in most of the world a majority wouldn't have much of a problem with it (unless it was their daughter). Here's a look at age of consent around the world. This is age of consent where the older person is not in a position of authority over the younger person, such as a teacher. In most of Europe the age of consent is in the 14-16 range. Only Cypress (17), Ireland (17), Turkey (18), and Vatican City (18) are higher. It's 16 in 20 countries there, 15 in 12 countries, and 14 in 14 countries. In South America age of consent is 13-16, with 14 being the most common. In Asia its mostly 16. In Africa its mostly 16 or 18 or "must be married". 15-18 in Oceania. 16 in most of Australia (17 in South Australia and Tasmania). 16 in New Zealand. North America is mostly 12-18. 16 in Canada, 16-18 in the US (18 in 11 states, 17 in 6 states, 16 in 33 states and DC). Mexico is ridiculously complicated and inconsistent...about all you can say with certainty is that if the other person has not yet hit puberty it definitely is not legal. Past that you are into a mess of "it depends". Most of the rest of North America is either 16 or 18.
steve1977 3y ago
[flagged]
shepherdjerred 3y ago
Completely insane idea. > Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it’s an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she’s sixteen or seventeen it’s not interesting anymore. It would certainly be... interesting... in the sense that it would be very unusual and offensive. Maybe he was intentionally going for that?
- b112 3y ago
  It's a movie, so emotional turmoil is often a desired thing. Especially non-modern films. One also has to understand when Indy was born. 15 and 25 may not have been too far apart, for someone born in the late 1800s. And the woman's father was around, I believe, at the time. I strongly dislike judging people's actions by modern ideals. What I mean is, did historical figures try to show understanding, compassion, and not intentional cruelty, whilst wrapped in the morals of the day? Gauging history by today's morals, would be as gauging cleanliness standard. Or the average person from 1000 years ago, for thinking the world was flat, or the solar system revolved around the Earth. And I certainly know that our descendants will look back at us, and think our actions morally reprehensible in some way, just as some do the same to our ancestors, currently. And by the way, I don't mean something we think is wrong now. While our descendants may look at global warming, or some such and judge us, I mean over issues that almost no one today views as wrong. So if you think "Oh of course, our descendants will view this $x thing as wrong!", you're wrong. It'll be something you 100% think is sensible today. Judging the past is so... beneath us. Or perhaps not judging, but blaming.
  - ethbr1 3y ago
    Wholeheartedly agreed. No mileage in rewriting historical morals and then holding people to them, past the standards of the day. Participating in evil perpetrated by everyone at the time just makes you... average. The baseline is intrinsically linked to the time. I think the "interesting" reference is the standards of the character's day (~1900-1940s) clashing with viewing audience standards (~1980). Personally, by modern standards, I think it absolutely still fits with the Marion Ravenwood character. She's idealistic and driven. It wouldn't matter who the object of her affection was, even an older Indiana. She wanted him, and she made that happen, her age be damned. Which also aptly sets up their movie-time interactions, where she still flummoxes him. (In contrast to most others, who are generally respectful or deferential)
wslh 3y ago
Very original dialogue. Lolita existed before this dialogue so I think we should think about a piece of art (the movie) more than the moral implications in our society and/or in the 70s. For real stuff we can read about Carrie Fischer and Harrison Ford relationship [1] she was not underage but very young. BTW, I was almost ten when I watched the Return of the Jedi and Carrie Fischer enlightened me. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/20/carrie-fisher-harrison-ford-affair-star-wars-memoir-interview-simon-hattenstone https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/20/carrie-fishe...
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
matt-attack 3y ago
Wait until you find out the Indy kill people in the movie. Even creepier! I mean murder is indeed worse than dating a 12 year old… right??

by tomcam 3y ago

jzl 3y ago

This disturbing conversation has been public for many years and discussed ad nauseam. I’m not defending it, but just making sure that readers of this HN post don’t think it’s breaking news. Here’s a post from 2009 discussing it: https://www.escapistmagazine.com/indiana-jones-was-almost-a-sex-offender/ https://www.escapistmagazine.com/indiana-jones-was-almost-a-...

tomcam 3y ago
[flagged]
- krustyburger 3y ago
  That’s a fancy word that doesn’t mean what you think it does. If you were serious that would “seem to be” a libelous thing to write about someone. Also, it’s fantastic that you think the world is reading this HN thread. Good thing you were here!
  - tomcam 3y ago
    Thanks for the correction. I did indeed mean pedophile. Good thing you were here!
defrost 3y ago
Child exploitation in the media industry has been known and commented upon for decades. Very much the reason why This Is Serious Mum's filmclip for If You're Not Famous at Fourteen, You're Finished from their 2001 De RigueurMortis was described as the Battleship Potemkin of rock video clips.

CamperBob2 3y ago

You can imagine Kasdan sitting there with an increasingly-horrified look on his face, wondering what he's gotten himself into. There's a lot of cringing and disillusionment in that conversation in general. It's not hard to see where "nuking the fridge" and other just plain stupid crap came from. Then there's the recurring incestuous theme "Let's make this look like (some ride) at Disney World." Meanwhile it's safe to say people at Disney were sitting around saying, "Let's make this look like (some Spielberg or Lucas movie)."

mongol 3y ago

You can look at it two ways. Either you see it as a reflection of Lucas' own values or desires. Or you see it as part of an artistic process, aiming to evoke emotions in the audience. In the first case, it is creepy. But to give example of the second case, this is the entire premise of a film like Lolita.

koheripbal 3y ago
11 is insane but the notion that a 16-17 year old girl can date a 22 year old boy was not so unusual in the 1970s.
- mongol 3y ago
  I found this on Wikipedia under Age of consent: "In the United States, as late as the 1880s most states set the minimum age at ten to twelve (in Delaware, it was seven in 1895).[11] Inspired by the "Maiden Tribute" articles, female reformers in the U.S. initiated their own campaign,[12] which petitioned legislators to raise the legal minimum age to at least sixteen, with the ultimate goal to raise the age to eighteen. The campaign was successful, with almost all states raising the minimum age to sixteen to eighteen years by 1920.[6][13]" "Raiders ..." take place in 1936. Was Marion older or younger than 11 by 1920? I don't know but I don't think it is outragous that a producer discusses such a story line at draft stage.
  - UncleSlacky 3y ago
    Meanwhile, 5 states currently have no minimum age for marriage, and another 35 permit underage marriage in some circumstances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_States#Underage_marriage https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_age_in_the_United_Sta...
- tzs 3y ago
  > [...] the notion that a 16-17 year old girl can date a 22 year old boy was not so unusual in the 1970s I don't know how unusual it is now, but in most of the world now it would be legal. Since laws against things widely seen as immoral tend to be easy to pass I'd guess that means that in most of the world a majority wouldn't have much of a problem with it (unless it was their daughter). Here's a look at age of consent around the world. This is age of consent where the older person is not in a position of authority over the younger person, such as a teacher. In most of Europe the age of consent is in the 14-16 range. Only Cypress (17), Ireland (17), Turkey (18), and Vatican City (18) are higher. It's 16 in 20 countries there, 15 in 12 countries, and 14 in 14 countries. In South America age of consent is 13-16, with 14 being the most common. In Asia its mostly 16. In Africa its mostly 16 or 18 or "must be married". 15-18 in Oceania. 16 in most of Australia (17 in South Australia and Tasmania). 16 in New Zealand. North America is mostly 12-18. 16 in Canada, 16-18 in the US (18 in 11 states, 17 in 6 states, 16 in 33 states and DC). Mexico is ridiculously complicated and inconsistent...about all you can say with certainty is that if the other person has not yet hit puberty it definitely is not legal. Past that you are into a mess of "it depends". Most of the rest of North America is either 16 or 18.

steve1977 3y ago

[flagged]

shepherdjerred 3y ago

Completely insane idea. > Fifteen is right on the edge. I know it’s an outrageous idea, but it is interesting. Once she’s sixteen or seventeen it’s not interesting anymore. It would certainly be... interesting... in the sense that it would be very unusual and offensive. Maybe he was intentionally going for that?

b112 3y ago
It's a movie, so emotional turmoil is often a desired thing. Especially non-modern films. One also has to understand when Indy was born. 15 and 25 may not have been too far apart, for someone born in the late 1800s. And the woman's father was around, I believe, at the time. I strongly dislike judging people's actions by modern ideals. What I mean is, did historical figures try to show understanding, compassion, and not intentional cruelty, whilst wrapped in the morals of the day? Gauging history by today's morals, would be as gauging cleanliness standard. Or the average person from 1000 years ago, for thinking the world was flat, or the solar system revolved around the Earth. And I certainly know that our descendants will look back at us, and think our actions morally reprehensible in some way, just as some do the same to our ancestors, currently. And by the way, I don't mean something we think is wrong now. While our descendants may look at global warming, or some such and judge us, I mean over issues that almost no one today views as wrong. So if you think "Oh of course, our descendants will view this $x thing as wrong!", you're wrong. It'll be something you 100% think is sensible today. Judging the past is so... beneath us. Or perhaps not judging, but blaming.
- ethbr1 3y ago
  Wholeheartedly agreed. No mileage in rewriting historical morals and then holding people to them, past the standards of the day. Participating in evil perpetrated by everyone at the time just makes you... average. The baseline is intrinsically linked to the time. I think the "interesting" reference is the standards of the character's day (~1900-1940s) clashing with viewing audience standards (~1980). Personally, by modern standards, I think it absolutely still fits with the Marion Ravenwood character. She's idealistic and driven. It wouldn't matter who the object of her affection was, even an older Indiana. She wanted him, and she made that happen, her age be damned. Which also aptly sets up their movie-time interactions, where she still flummoxes him. (In contrast to most others, who are generally respectful or deferential)

wslh 3y ago

Very original dialogue. Lolita existed before this dialogue so I think we should think about a piece of art (the movie) more than the moral implications in our society and/or in the 70s. For real stuff we can read about Carrie Fischer and Harrison Ford relationship [1] she was not underage but very young. BTW, I was almost ten when I watched the Return of the Jedi and Carrie Fischer enlightened me. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/20/carrie-fisher-harrison-ford-affair-star-wars-memoir-interview-simon-hattenstone https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2016/nov/20/carrie-fishe...

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

matt-attack 3y ago

Wait until you find out the Indy kill people in the movie. Even creepier! I mean murder is indeed worse than dating a 12 year old… right??