11 ms·

The Paris metro is a miserable experience when you compare to what you have in Tokyo.

pkd 3y ago
I can believe that - hoping to experience it first hand in the near future. Still, was impressed by Paris in general (or at least, was more impressed than I expected to be!)
- ekianjo 3y ago
  Always go to France with low expectations. Makes for a better experience.
DiscourseFan 3y ago
This is a bit of an exaggeration. The Paris metro is about as fast as the Tokyo metro, its just that the Tokyo metro is a larger and denser system, since it is serving a larger and denser city.
- ekianjo 3y ago
  The tokyo metro is much cleaner and does not smell like piss, has none of the homeless population living in and you can be safe in day and night. Only a blind person with a blocked nose could pretend its about the same.
  - yreg 3y ago
    Tokyo metro has its drawbacks as well, namely, I found the stations rather difficult to navigate for foreigners. Of course this being Japan there are many nice people eager to help everywhere, but (again of course) they don’t speak english.
    - ekianjo 3y ago
      Tokyo has signs in English everywhere. It is difficult to navigate the first time you are looking for a connection but after a few days you get used to how things work and how to find your way. There are also tons of apps you can use to help you.
      - rvnx 3y ago
        In Tokyo it's simple for a foreigner, open Google Maps, enter your destination, the app gives you the number where you have to go, you take your train, and that's it. No different than any other cities.
        yreg 3y ago
        Last time I was there Google Maps weren't good at navigating through the stations. And the signs at the stations were difficult to follow compared to other metro systems I'm used to. I'm sure everyone is able to figure it out, but IMO they could take some inspiration from e.g. London or Paris.
        throwaway2037 3y ago
        One tiny thing they could do to improve metro stations: Put big stickers on the floor that guide you to an interchange or an exit. Most stuff in Tokyo is "up" (overhead signs), but they could also use "down" to improve things. I was recently traveling on the metro in Kunming (Yunan Province, China), and I noticed they use the "down" part very well to guide you -- with Chinese and English. It was very helpful in more complex stations. One more idea: Tokyo metro stations don't make a lot of use of colour schemes. I have used some metros that use very loud colour schemes all throughout the station to guide you to interchanges. Again: Very helpful for visitors.
      - dreamcompiler 3y ago
        It also helps to learn the Katakana alphabet, which is easy enough for any computer nerd that one can do it on the plane to Tokyo. You can then sound out the syllables on signs and know that アキハバラ sounds like "Akihabara" and thus you're on the right train. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
    - xvilka 3y ago
      You just need to learn that there are multiple metros and some JR trains, and then it will become easy to understand. Modern metro apps and maps can calculate the path using all of those without any problem.
    - andylynch 3y ago
      I remember finding it very busy, but we’ll organise - helps that most signs are bilingual. And the station staff are really helpful if you look lost. The hardest part was the ticket machines but that’s common all over I find.
      - yreg 3y ago
        I really don't remember most signs being bilingual.
        throwaway2037 3y ago
        What year did you ride the Tokyo metro? Jesus, on most lines there are four languages -- Japanese, English, Korean, Chinese. And, the newest ticket machines have many, many more languages -- even Thai!
    - pokepim 3y ago
      [dead]
- rjzzleep 3y ago
  Tokyo's metro region is smaller than Paris and fits more than 3 times the people. The metro's top speed is up to 5 times as fast as Paris's metro. It's on a completely different scale. And given that Paris is Europe's second busiest metro system it tells you something. It is unfortunately a bit hard to compare the length of the system, since it's hard to distinguish between the local lines that are not operated by tokyo metro vs. the longer distance ones.
  - throwaway2037 3y ago
    Overall, your post is thoughtful. Can you help me to understand this part? The metro's top speed is up to 5 times as fast as Paris's metro. I would not call the Tokyo subways lines (both companies) very fast when riding a local train. I went to Paris for a week and found the metro lines fairly similar.
    - rjzzleep 3y ago
      You are correct, taking the reference speed as measurement is not a valid line of reasoning. The average speed is higher, the speed is lower the closer the stations are together, but the speed also depends on the line; i.e. the Ginza line added ATS(automated train stop, added in 1993). I just learned that Paris' Line 14, that went into service in 2022, also drives at accelerated speeds, it's the first line with ATS in Paris. I think the main problems that need to be addressed with respect to higher speed transportation are the following: 1. the breaking system needs to be assisted (ATS) 2. the railway needs to be replaced and reinforced 3. turn angles can't exceed a certain degree 1 and 3 are a design issue that isn't really addressed in older metro system, and 2 is probably a political problem. Contrary to my previous belief it seems that France is at least trying to address some of the points in their metro extensions, which is nice.
rjzzleep 3y ago
I was told that there is a hotline for depressed Japanese when they come to Paris and find out that it's not like the stories they are told. "Paris Syndrome is a psychological condition experienced almost exclusively by Japanese tourists who are disappointed when the city of lights does not live up to their romantic expectations." The Japanese Embassy in Paris now has a 24-hour hotline for Japanese tourists suffering from the syndrome, whose symptoms can range from depression and anxiety to acute delusional states, dizziness, sweating, hallucinations and "feelings of persecution."[1] [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/french-toilet-story_b_2422398 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/french-toilet-story_b_2422398
- defrost 3y ago
  Is there a similar condition for visitors to Times Square in New York City disapointed at not being mugged or seeing a rat?
  - filoleg 3y ago
    I am not sure what one even has to do to get mugged in NYC. And I am saying that as someone who has walked across Manhattan through Times Square on multiple occasions after midnight, all while very properly inebriated. However, there is imo no way to avoid seeing rats if you used NYC subway more than once and had your eyelids up.
    - defrost 3y ago
      I'll be the first to admit the city cleaned up a lot between my first vist there in the late 1970s and more recently a year or two ago ... that said, for whatever reason, a lot of non American first time visitors seem to still carry that '70s image of NYC as a crime hub. Might be all those 'classic' NYC films exporting a vibe. I still haven't seen an NYC rat chase a cat while carrying a pizza though, admittedly I'm an infrequent and short term visitor.
      - qsi 3y ago
        I was a frequent visitor to Manhattan in the 2000s, and I generally felt very safe at any time in midtown, and the upper east and west sides. My recent visit last year (the first in 10 years or so) was shocking in how much Manhattan had deteriorated in terms of safety. I don't know what it was like in the 70s so I can't compare.
GuB-42 3y ago
Every metro feels like a miserable experience when compared to what you have in Tokyo. This extends to trains in Japan in general. Transport is expensive in Japan, but quality is unmatched on all aspects I can think of: timeliness, reliability, service, comfort, security, cleanliness, extensiveness,... From what I've heard, working for JR (Japan Rail) is considered a honor. I think the Paris metro is average-good compared to my experience in other countries. It has its quirks, and strikes are a thing but I have used it extensively (I have lived in Paris for several years) without big problems, and I arrive most of the time within a few minutes of the expected time (in Tokyo, that's seconds!).
- adrianN 3y ago
  When I was in Tokyo a couple of years ago I didn't find transport expensive.
  - bmoxb 3y ago
    As a foreign tourist from presumably from NA or Western Europe, then it will seem pretty affordable compared to your home country. Relative to Japanese cost of living and average income however, certain lines and services can be pretty expensive (particularly the shinkansen and certain JR services).
- bevesce- 3y ago
  Unless you're traveling in pick hours and the train is so overcrowded that you can't even lift you hand inside...
  - samus 3y ago
    Unavoidable except if you price it up so much that people start using the car again. For the same reason why there will always be be traffic jams no matter how many streets there are and how many lanes they have.
- petesergeant 3y ago
  > Every metro feels like a miserable experience when compared to what you have in Tokyo I’ve never taken it, but I’ll note I’ve never personally taken public transport to match Bangkok’s BTS and MRT, which are both excellent, although it’s very irritating they haven’t implemented cross-system billing yet
dreamcompiler 3y ago
First, it's unfair to compare any subway to Tokyo. Tokyo's public transit system is on a different planet. It will always win by a landslide. Second, the Paris metro is dramatically better than New York's in terms of pleasantness of the experience and arguably better than London's and DC's, both of which are pretty pleasant by any standard that does not include Tokyo.
- sgu999 3y ago
  It's precisely because Tokyo is the best that we should compare everything else to it. That's the standard that every urban planning expert and functioning council should try to achieve.
  - xvilka 3y ago
    Tokyo metro isn't best. I would say the Shanghai[1] one is. And it grows with every year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro
    - felixding 3y ago
      Nah...Shanghai metro is no where near Tokyo in terms of pretty much every aspect. The only thing it is better is price (starting from 3 CNY, or about 60 JPY, whereas Tokyo metro starts from 180 JPY).
      - hunters_laptop 3y ago
        [dead]
      - xvilka 3y ago
        It has better toilets, infrastructure, newer trains, much bigger (thus stations are almost always nearby), and integrated as a system as opposed to multiple metros in Tokyo, and so on.
        3y ago
eloisant 3y ago
You're right. And I'm not even talking about how the Paris metro is narrow, dark and stinky. The Paris area train system (if you consider metro + other trains) is reliable inside Paris, and the very close suburbs, but as you get further away it gets extremely shitty. In some cities (with RER) daycare will refuse families where both parents work in Paris because they know they can't reliably be on time to pick up the kids and will end up with late parents. Also metro stations in Paris are so close it's very slow. The only exception is line 14 which is the most recent. It's also the best line but it's the only one. Overall, they're making a big fuss about the Grand Paris and while it is a big deal, it's not going to make it the best transportation system for cities of that size. I'm just really catching up on fixing the very broken transportation system for anyone living outside of Paris itself - which is only 105m2, very small for the population living in the greater Paris area. It's roughly the size inside the Yamanote line.

pkd 3y ago

I can believe that - hoping to experience it first hand in the near future. Still, was impressed by Paris in general (or at least, was more impressed than I expected to be!)

ekianjo 3y ago
Always go to France with low expectations. Makes for a better experience.

DiscourseFan 3y ago

This is a bit of an exaggeration. The Paris metro is about as fast as the Tokyo metro, its just that the Tokyo metro is a larger and denser system, since it is serving a larger and denser city.

ekianjo 3y ago
The tokyo metro is much cleaner and does not smell like piss, has none of the homeless population living in and you can be safe in day and night. Only a blind person with a blocked nose could pretend its about the same.
- yreg 3y ago
  Tokyo metro has its drawbacks as well, namely, I found the stations rather difficult to navigate for foreigners. Of course this being Japan there are many nice people eager to help everywhere, but (again of course) they don’t speak english.
  - ekianjo 3y ago
    Tokyo has signs in English everywhere. It is difficult to navigate the first time you are looking for a connection but after a few days you get used to how things work and how to find your way. There are also tons of apps you can use to help you.
    - rvnx 3y ago
      In Tokyo it's simple for a foreigner, open Google Maps, enter your destination, the app gives you the number where you have to go, you take your train, and that's it. No different than any other cities.
      - yreg 3y ago
        Last time I was there Google Maps weren't good at navigating through the stations. And the signs at the stations were difficult to follow compared to other metro systems I'm used to. I'm sure everyone is able to figure it out, but IMO they could take some inspiration from e.g. London or Paris.
        throwaway2037 3y ago
        One tiny thing they could do to improve metro stations: Put big stickers on the floor that guide you to an interchange or an exit. Most stuff in Tokyo is "up" (overhead signs), but they could also use "down" to improve things. I was recently traveling on the metro in Kunming (Yunan Province, China), and I noticed they use the "down" part very well to guide you -- with Chinese and English. It was very helpful in more complex stations. One more idea: Tokyo metro stations don't make a lot of use of colour schemes. I have used some metros that use very loud colour schemes all throughout the station to guide you to interchanges. Again: Very helpful for visitors.
    - dreamcompiler 3y ago
      It also helps to learn the Katakana alphabet, which is easy enough for any computer nerd that one can do it on the plane to Tokyo. You can then sound out the syllables on signs and know that アキハバラ sounds like "Akihabara" and thus you're on the right train. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katakana
  - xvilka 3y ago
    You just need to learn that there are multiple metros and some JR trains, and then it will become easy to understand. Modern metro apps and maps can calculate the path using all of those without any problem.
  - andylynch 3y ago
    I remember finding it very busy, but we’ll organise - helps that most signs are bilingual. And the station staff are really helpful if you look lost. The hardest part was the ticket machines but that’s common all over I find.
    - yreg 3y ago
      I really don't remember most signs being bilingual.
      - throwaway2037 3y ago
        What year did you ride the Tokyo metro? Jesus, on most lines there are four languages -- Japanese, English, Korean, Chinese. And, the newest ticket machines have many, many more languages -- even Thai!
  - pokepim 3y ago
    [dead]
rjzzleep 3y ago
Tokyo's metro region is smaller than Paris and fits more than 3 times the people. The metro's top speed is up to 5 times as fast as Paris's metro. It's on a completely different scale. And given that Paris is Europe's second busiest metro system it tells you something. It is unfortunately a bit hard to compare the length of the system, since it's hard to distinguish between the local lines that are not operated by tokyo metro vs. the longer distance ones.
- throwaway2037 3y ago
  Overall, your post is thoughtful. Can you help me to understand this part? The metro's top speed is up to 5 times as fast as Paris's metro. I would not call the Tokyo subways lines (both companies) very fast when riding a local train. I went to Paris for a week and found the metro lines fairly similar.
  - rjzzleep 3y ago
    You are correct, taking the reference speed as measurement is not a valid line of reasoning. The average speed is higher, the speed is lower the closer the stations are together, but the speed also depends on the line; i.e. the Ginza line added ATS(automated train stop, added in 1993). I just learned that Paris' Line 14, that went into service in 2022, also drives at accelerated speeds, it's the first line with ATS in Paris. I think the main problems that need to be addressed with respect to higher speed transportation are the following: 1. the breaking system needs to be assisted (ATS) 2. the railway needs to be replaced and reinforced 3. turn angles can't exceed a certain degree 1 and 3 are a design issue that isn't really addressed in older metro system, and 2 is probably a political problem. Contrary to my previous belief it seems that France is at least trying to address some of the points in their metro extensions, which is nice.

rjzzleep 3y ago

I was told that there is a hotline for depressed Japanese when they come to Paris and find out that it's not like the stories they are told. "Paris Syndrome is a psychological condition experienced almost exclusively by Japanese tourists who are disappointed when the city of lights does not live up to their romantic expectations." The Japanese Embassy in Paris now has a 24-hour hotline for Japanese tourists suffering from the syndrome, whose symptoms can range from depression and anxiety to acute delusional states, dizziness, sweating, hallucinations and "feelings of persecution."[1] [1] https://www.huffpost.com/entry/french-toilet-story_b_2422398 https://www.huffpost.com/entry/french-toilet-story_b_2422398

defrost 3y ago
Is there a similar condition for visitors to Times Square in New York City disapointed at not being mugged or seeing a rat?
- filoleg 3y ago
  I am not sure what one even has to do to get mugged in NYC. And I am saying that as someone who has walked across Manhattan through Times Square on multiple occasions after midnight, all while very properly inebriated. However, there is imo no way to avoid seeing rats if you used NYC subway more than once and had your eyelids up.
  - defrost 3y ago
    I'll be the first to admit the city cleaned up a lot between my first vist there in the late 1970s and more recently a year or two ago ... that said, for whatever reason, a lot of non American first time visitors seem to still carry that '70s image of NYC as a crime hub. Might be all those 'classic' NYC films exporting a vibe. I still haven't seen an NYC rat chase a cat while carrying a pizza though, admittedly I'm an infrequent and short term visitor.
    - qsi 3y ago
      I was a frequent visitor to Manhattan in the 2000s, and I generally felt very safe at any time in midtown, and the upper east and west sides. My recent visit last year (the first in 10 years or so) was shocking in how much Manhattan had deteriorated in terms of safety. I don't know what it was like in the 70s so I can't compare.

GuB-42 3y ago

Every metro feels like a miserable experience when compared to what you have in Tokyo. This extends to trains in Japan in general. Transport is expensive in Japan, but quality is unmatched on all aspects I can think of: timeliness, reliability, service, comfort, security, cleanliness, extensiveness,... From what I've heard, working for JR (Japan Rail) is considered a honor. I think the Paris metro is average-good compared to my experience in other countries. It has its quirks, and strikes are a thing but I have used it extensively (I have lived in Paris for several years) without big problems, and I arrive most of the time within a few minutes of the expected time (in Tokyo, that's seconds!).

adrianN 3y ago
When I was in Tokyo a couple of years ago I didn't find transport expensive.
- bmoxb 3y ago
  As a foreign tourist from presumably from NA or Western Europe, then it will seem pretty affordable compared to your home country. Relative to Japanese cost of living and average income however, certain lines and services can be pretty expensive (particularly the shinkansen and certain JR services).
bevesce- 3y ago
Unless you're traveling in pick hours and the train is so overcrowded that you can't even lift you hand inside...
- samus 3y ago
  Unavoidable except if you price it up so much that people start using the car again. For the same reason why there will always be be traffic jams no matter how many streets there are and how many lanes they have.
petesergeant 3y ago
> Every metro feels like a miserable experience when compared to what you have in Tokyo I’ve never taken it, but I’ll note I’ve never personally taken public transport to match Bangkok’s BTS and MRT, which are both excellent, although it’s very irritating they haven’t implemented cross-system billing yet

dreamcompiler 3y ago

First, it's unfair to compare any subway to Tokyo. Tokyo's public transit system is on a different planet. It will always win by a landslide. Second, the Paris metro is dramatically better than New York's in terms of pleasantness of the experience and arguably better than London's and DC's, both of which are pretty pleasant by any standard that does not include Tokyo.

sgu999 3y ago
It's precisely because Tokyo is the best that we should compare everything else to it. That's the standard that every urban planning expert and functioning council should try to achieve.
- xvilka 3y ago
  Tokyo metro isn't best. I would say the Shanghai[1] one is. And it grows with every year. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shanghai_Metro
  - felixding 3y ago
    Nah...Shanghai metro is no where near Tokyo in terms of pretty much every aspect. The only thing it is better is price (starting from 3 CNY, or about 60 JPY, whereas Tokyo metro starts from 180 JPY).
    - hunters_laptop 3y ago
      [dead]
    - xvilka 3y ago
      It has better toilets, infrastructure, newer trains, much bigger (thus stations are almost always nearby), and integrated as a system as opposed to multiple metros in Tokyo, and so on.
      - 3y ago

eloisant 3y ago

You're right. And I'm not even talking about how the Paris metro is narrow, dark and stinky. The Paris area train system (if you consider metro + other trains) is reliable inside Paris, and the very close suburbs, but as you get further away it gets extremely shitty. In some cities (with RER) daycare will refuse families where both parents work in Paris because they know they can't reliably be on time to pick up the kids and will end up with late parents. Also metro stations in Paris are so close it's very slow. The only exception is line 14 which is the most recent. It's also the best line but it's the only one. Overall, they're making a big fuss about the Grand Paris and while it is a big deal, it's not going to make it the best transportation system for cities of that size. I'm just really catching up on fixing the very broken transportation system for anyone living outside of Paris itself - which is only 105m2, very small for the population living in the greater Paris area. It's roughly the size inside the Yamanote line.