4 ms·

tl;dr The F-35 is a dog. The charts make it clear that compared to older fighters like the F-15 and F-18, the F-35 is much less available (i.e. less reliable)

tl;dr The F-35 is a dog. The charts make it clear that compared to older fighters like the F-15 and F-18, the F-35 is much less available (i.e. less reliable) and it gets flown less. It may be flown less because it's less available (obviously) or because it costs too much to fly -- the report doesn't distinguish between the two. The report also makes it clear that the F-35 is becoming less available with age (as one might expect) but its availability is decreasing with age much faster than the availability of the F-15 and F-18 decreased with age. IOW, if the US suddenly needs fighter planes in a war, it should be thankful it still has F-15s, F-16s, and F-18s because it's probably going to need them.

Manuel_D 3y ago
Sure, and a Formula 1 car is probably less reliable and has more maintenance hours than a Honda Civic. The F-35 also has capabilities that the F-15 and F-16s don't: namely a much stealthier signature and, in some variants, carrier and VTOL capability. It is true that lessons from the Ukraine war show that attritability is important. But it's likely that drones or older generation aircraft would be employed for tasks that require attritability.
- dreamcompiler 3y ago
  Nobody claims that a Formula 1 car is a warfighting machine. Fighter planes should be not just more reliable but dramatically more reliable than a Formula 1 car.
  - Manuel_D 3y ago
    Correct, but it's the comparison between a latest-generation warplane with a last-generation warplane. The more technically advance and cutting edge piece of machinery that pushes the envelope is of course going to have more maintenance costs.
hylaride 3y ago
The F-35 only became operational in July of 2015. It's still a new plane going through teething problems. A lot of the issues are being addressed in later variants. The latest blocks are vast improvements. That being said, I suspect the plane was designed to do too much. It doesn't surprise me that said teething problems are more than other aircraft designs, but this really should have been 3 different planes, or at least the F-35B should have been. But there really should be a separate stealthy plane dedicated to close air support that would not need to be as stealthy as the better stealth planes should have already achieved air superiority. I may also add that the F-15 itself received a lot of controversy when it was first released. It was seen as a poorer dog fighter and that it's "overpowered" radar was unnecessary, but it's gone on to be very successful in all its engagements. Then the same critics lost their shit when they made the strike eagle version.

Manuel_D 3y ago

Sure, and a Formula 1 car is probably less reliable and has more maintenance hours than a Honda Civic. The F-35 also has capabilities that the F-15 and F-16s don't: namely a much stealthier signature and, in some variants, carrier and VTOL capability. It is true that lessons from the Ukraine war show that attritability is important. But it's likely that drones or older generation aircraft would be employed for tasks that require attritability.

dreamcompiler 3y ago
Nobody claims that a Formula 1 car is a warfighting machine. Fighter planes should be not just more reliable but dramatically more reliable than a Formula 1 car.
- Manuel_D 3y ago
  Correct, but it's the comparison between a latest-generation warplane with a last-generation warplane. The more technically advance and cutting edge piece of machinery that pushes the envelope is of course going to have more maintenance costs.

hylaride 3y ago

The F-35 only became operational in July of 2015. It's still a new plane going through teething problems. A lot of the issues are being addressed in later variants. The latest blocks are vast improvements. That being said, I suspect the plane was designed to do too much. It doesn't surprise me that said teething problems are more than other aircraft designs, but this really should have been 3 different planes, or at least the F-35B should have been. But there really should be a separate stealthy plane dedicated to close air support that would not need to be as stealthy as the better stealth planes should have already achieved air superiority. I may also add that the F-15 itself received a lot of controversy when it was first released. It was seen as a poorer dog fighter and that it's "overpowered" radar was unnecessary, but it's gone on to be very successful in all its engagements. Then the same critics lost their shit when they made the strike eagle version.