6 ms·

'I thought climate change was a hoax. Now I've changed my mind'

20 points by webmaven 3y ago

brucethemoose2 3y ago
> influenced by friends at church in the US south The article doesn't really touch on this much. I don't know what church culture is like outside the U.S. South, but here in the South its... weird. It's not like Donald Trump is a holy figure or anti-vax is scripture, but at the same time political memes and secular conservative culture have become remarkably entwined with the religious side. Obviously church has a long (sometimes problematic) history in U.S. Southern culture, but not quite like this. Not at such scale, diverging from the central moral/religious teachings and the culture of southern hospitality so much. This Atlantic piece is based in Michigan, but it similar to what I've seen in the states between Texas and Florida: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/evangelical-church-pastors-political-radicalization/629631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/evangel...
- smt88 3y ago
  I'm surprised that you're surprised. Southern Christianity has always reached deep into secular politics and government. The entire Southern Baptist religion was founded to protect slavery, which certainly isn't an imperative from scripture. I believe you that things are changing and perhaps becoming less subtle, but there never was a strong connection between Christian scripture and the behavior of Southern Christians.
  - brucethemoose2 3y ago
    Yeah, but its so... secular now. And blunt. I can't believe how direct some of my family+acquaintances are now in their mixed up religious/political talk, it's totally out of character. Instead of being introduced as a pretense, its like the fundamental religious pretense is getting thrown out, along with the tendency to use euphemisms.
johnny99k 3y ago
"I was in middle school in the late 1990s and I read an article about rising temperatures." I also read about rising temperatures as far back as the 70s. There were decades where the temperate never rose. But this is cherry-picked and ignored in articles like this. The goal post keeps moving and we still aren't under water. Wealthy people and insurance companies still insure houses on the coasts. When you follow the people that want to protect their own interests (especially money), you get closer to the truth. This entire article is about someone that was a 'denier' based on nothing but religious reasons and now believes in climate change..still not based on science , facts, or critical thinking. "An independent enquiry cleared the UEA scientists of wrongdoing and concluded that "their rigour and honesty are not in doubt"." I stopped reading here. It was in doubt and should be. Lots of universities apologized after climate gate because they were, in fact, using the same exact, data. The emails leaked were also damning. This should have been a moment where we opened our eyes to how easy data can be manipulated and attempt to get the actual truth. Instead? Unless you are stating that climate change is 100% real and go along with the status quo, you will be banned, ignored, and in some cases, lose your job. This is the exact opposite of science and is the definition of anti-intellectual. Update: Downvotes on this proved my point. Thank you.
- s1artibartfast 3y ago
  I too believe in climate change, but there is an insane amount of FUD and missinfo supporting it. I have seen so many smart and detail oriented people become more skeptical over time due to sloppy facts or "well intended" lies. The latest fad seems to be making claims are specific weather events are attributable to climate change using methods that would make any real statistician scream.
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    > The latest fad seems to be making claims are specific weather events I read these same news articles, and usually they're quoting a scientist saying that no specific "weather event" can be attributed to climate change, but that a general increase in severity or fluctuations between extremes is likely the result of climate change. Why the heck do supposedly "smart and detail oriented" people pay more attention to scare quotes from journalists and policy makers than to nuanced quotes from actual scientists? https://eapsweb.mit.edu/news/2019/historical-climate-models-accurately-projected-global-warming https://eapsweb.mit.edu/news/2019/historical-climate-models-... > Climate impacts are nuanced and are experienced at smaller, regional scales, for which different models often still disagree. This is because different models may contain slightly different characterizations of the Earth’s physics, particularly small-scale features that do not last long but can make a big impact, like clouds. These slight differences in calculations, when spread over time and space, have the potential to cancel out or amplify other climate effects. > The results from this paper increase our confidence in climate models in that they have accurately projected the most basic climate metric through history: global warming. By many measures, today’s climate models are much more useful and skillful than the historical models reviewed here. This adds to our confidence in today’s state-of-the-art model projections, which climate scientists will continue to improve upon and use to pin down the specifics of climate change’s effects.
robocat 3y ago
She changed her tribe. Until her whole ex-peer group believes, changing her mind hardly helps. From article: influenced by friends at church in the US south. I spent years doubting the science of climate change and spending time with people who didn't believe in the science either. * To move away from those people meant leaving behind an entire community *
pcrh 3y ago
My response to climate change skeptics is to point out that CO2 is firmly established as a "greenhouse gas", so increasing its levels in the atmosphere will increase temperatures, regardless of any other measurements, theories, etc. So the question a skeptic should answer is what would be preventing this increase if climate change was a hoax?
- PM_me_your_math 3y ago
  [dead]
Slashbot3 3y ago
[flagged]

20 points by webmaven 3y ago

> influenced by friends at church in the US south The article doesn't really touch on this much. I don't know what church culture is like outside the U.S. South, but here in the South its... weird. It's not like Donald Trump is a holy figure or anti-vax is scripture, but at the same time political memes and secular conservative culture have become remarkably entwined with the religious side. Obviously church has a long (sometimes problematic) history in U.S. Southern culture, but not quite like this. Not at such scale, diverging from the central moral/religious teachings and the culture of southern hospitality so much. This Atlantic piece is based in Michigan, but it similar to what I've seen in the states between Texas and Florida: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/evangelical-church-pastors-political-radicalization/629631/ https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/06/evangel...

smt88 3y ago
I'm surprised that you're surprised. Southern Christianity has always reached deep into secular politics and government. The entire Southern Baptist religion was founded to protect slavery, which certainly isn't an imperative from scripture. I believe you that things are changing and perhaps becoming less subtle, but there never was a strong connection between Christian scripture and the behavior of Southern Christians.
- brucethemoose2 3y ago
  Yeah, but its so... secular now. And blunt. I can't believe how direct some of my family+acquaintances are now in their mixed up religious/political talk, it's totally out of character. Instead of being introduced as a pretense, its like the fundamental religious pretense is getting thrown out, along with the tendency to use euphemisms.

johnny99k 3y ago

"I was in middle school in the late 1990s and I read an article about rising temperatures." I also read about rising temperatures as far back as the 70s. There were decades where the temperate never rose. But this is cherry-picked and ignored in articles like this. The goal post keeps moving and we still aren't under water. Wealthy people and insurance companies still insure houses on the coasts. When you follow the people that want to protect their own interests (especially money), you get closer to the truth. This entire article is about someone that was a 'denier' based on nothing but religious reasons and now believes in climate change..still not based on science , facts, or critical thinking. "An independent enquiry cleared the UEA scientists of wrongdoing and concluded that "their rigour and honesty are not in doubt"." I stopped reading here. It was in doubt and should be. Lots of universities apologized after climate gate because they were, in fact, using the same exact, data. The emails leaked were also damning. This should have been a moment where we opened our eyes to how easy data can be manipulated and attempt to get the actual truth. Instead? Unless you are stating that climate change is 100% real and go along with the status quo, you will be banned, ignored, and in some cases, lose your job. This is the exact opposite of science and is the definition of anti-intellectual. Update: Downvotes on this proved my point. Thank you.

s1artibartfast 3y ago
I too believe in climate change, but there is an insane amount of FUD and missinfo supporting it. I have seen so many smart and detail oriented people become more skeptical over time due to sloppy facts or "well intended" lies. The latest fad seems to be making claims are specific weather events are attributable to climate change using methods that would make any real statistician scream.
- anonymouskimmer 3y ago
  > The latest fad seems to be making claims are specific weather events I read these same news articles, and usually they're quoting a scientist saying that no specific "weather event" can be attributed to climate change, but that a general increase in severity or fluctuations between extremes is likely the result of climate change. Why the heck do supposedly "smart and detail oriented" people pay more attention to scare quotes from journalists and policy makers than to nuanced quotes from actual scientists? https://eapsweb.mit.edu/news/2019/historical-climate-models-accurately-projected-global-warming https://eapsweb.mit.edu/news/2019/historical-climate-models-... > Climate impacts are nuanced and are experienced at smaller, regional scales, for which different models often still disagree. This is because different models may contain slightly different characterizations of the Earth’s physics, particularly small-scale features that do not last long but can make a big impact, like clouds. These slight differences in calculations, when spread over time and space, have the potential to cancel out or amplify other climate effects. > The results from this paper increase our confidence in climate models in that they have accurately projected the most basic climate metric through history: global warming. By many measures, today’s climate models are much more useful and skillful than the historical models reviewed here. This adds to our confidence in today’s state-of-the-art model projections, which climate scientists will continue to improve upon and use to pin down the specifics of climate change’s effects.

robocat 3y ago

She changed her tribe. Until her whole ex-peer group believes, changing her mind hardly helps. From article: influenced by friends at church in the US south. I spent years doubting the science of climate change and spending time with people who didn't believe in the science either. * To move away from those people meant leaving behind an entire community *

pcrh 3y ago

My response to climate change skeptics is to point out that CO2 is firmly established as a "greenhouse gas", so increasing its levels in the atmosphere will increase temperatures, regardless of any other measurements, theories, etc. So the question a skeptic should answer is what would be preventing this increase if climate change was a hoax?

PM_me_your_math 3y ago
[dead]

Slashbot3 3y ago

[flagged]