4 ms·

Given the size of the country and taxing situation, 2100 seems low for the US, and 1000 very high for France. Must say something about the quality of life.

klipt 3y ago
I read somewhere that under the US-French tax treaty, for retired Americans who move to France their retirement income (social security, 401k etc) is only taxed by the US, not by France. So it's an attractive place for American millionaires to retire.
- InvaderFizz 3y ago
  Additionally, France is one of the few countries that recognizes Roth tax advantaged status for retirement accounts. Most other countries do not.
- yieldcrv 3y ago
  That’s pretty awesome, i hope to corroborate that information
yieldcrv 3y ago
Wealth numbers aren’t public if you don’t want them to be It is very difficult to make this chart or any of those lists, they are inaccurate and a subset of people with public shareholdings and other disclosures But it can show a representative trend
notahacker 3y ago
Don't forget they're net figures and the US may be high in both directions (strong pull and push factors, not least because the "millionaire" category in wealthier countries includes a lot of mid career professionals at multinationals) France is also an obvious destination for wealthy Francophone Africans, and has freedom of movement with 27 countries (whereas I think it's quite easy to have a net worth of a million dollars and still not get a US visa)
082349872349872 3y ago
Yeah, population-wise US is ~4.9x FR (vous voyez), ~61x SG (lah), and ~31x CH (gället). Then again, scaling by population makes UK outflows look much worse than RU. (it probably puts UK top of the outflows, as scaled CN and IN will be negligible?)
- RetroTechie 3y ago
  Yes, it would be nice to see these lists be ranked as % of population. Probably some countries would move into these top 10s that aren't there now (and aren't there either if you re-order the given top 10s). Wouldn't be surprising if there are a few countries where most anyone who strikes it rich takes the 1st flight out.
  - 082349872349872 3y ago
    rough figures from https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wealth-migration-report-2023/inflows-outflows https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wea... and https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL : Top 15 HNWI outflows (2023 forecast), scaled to pop (2022): Hong Kong -1000 7 -1.43E+02 UK -3200 67 -4.78E+01 Russian Fed. -3000 144 -2.08E+01 South Korea -800 52 -1.54E+01 China -13500 1412 -9.56E+00 South Africa -500 60 -8.33E+00 Brazil -1200 215 -5.58E+00 Mexico -700 128 -5.47E+00 Chile -100 20 -5.00E+00 India -6500 1417 -4.59E+00 Argentina -200 46 -4.35E+00 Vietnam -300 98 -3.06E+00 Ghana -100 33 -3.03E+00 Saudi Arabia -100 36 -2.78E+00 Japan -300 125 -2.40E+00 Top 15 HNWI inflows, scaled to pop: Monaco 400 0.04 1.00E+04 Singapore 3200 6 5.33E+02 UAE 4500 9 5.00E+02 Australia 5200 26 2.00E+02 Malta 200 1 2.00E+02 Mauritius 200 1 2.00E+02 Switzerland 1800 9 2.00E+02 New Zealand 700 5 1.40E+02 Greece 1200 11 1.09E+02 Luxembourg 100 1 1.00E+02 Portugal 800 10 8.00E+01 Israel 600 10 6.00E+01 Canada 1600 39 4.10E+01 France 1000 68 1.47E+01 Netherlands 200 18 1.11E+01
TacticalCoder 3y ago
All the numbers in the EU are skewed due to the huge net inflow of millionaires leaving the UK since the Brexit. Most of the millionaires fleeing the UK are going to an EU country. As for where millionaires go settle in France: I'd bet many go to the french riviera, where it's all sunny (and grumpy french people btw: french people in the south of France tend to very grumpy, especially with expats). It's not unlike certain older americans retiring in Florida.
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  Can confirm, I'm in the french riviera, and I'm grumpy.
csomar 3y ago
Does the french numbers count Monaco?
- BiteCode_dev 3y ago
  That would be weird, as Monaco is an independant country with their own administration and passport. Plus, unlike the vatican, it's an enclave by design, not integrated in the French public life beyond a few agreement to facilitate crossing the border.

klipt 3y ago

I read somewhere that under the US-French tax treaty, for retired Americans who move to France their retirement income (social security, 401k etc) is only taxed by the US, not by France. So it's an attractive place for American millionaires to retire.

InvaderFizz 3y ago
Additionally, France is one of the few countries that recognizes Roth tax advantaged status for retirement accounts. Most other countries do not.
yieldcrv 3y ago
That’s pretty awesome, i hope to corroborate that information

yieldcrv 3y ago

Wealth numbers aren’t public if you don’t want them to be It is very difficult to make this chart or any of those lists, they are inaccurate and a subset of people with public shareholdings and other disclosures But it can show a representative trend

notahacker 3y ago

Don't forget they're net figures and the US may be high in both directions (strong pull and push factors, not least because the "millionaire" category in wealthier countries includes a lot of mid career professionals at multinationals) France is also an obvious destination for wealthy Francophone Africans, and has freedom of movement with 27 countries (whereas I think it's quite easy to have a net worth of a million dollars and still not get a US visa)

082349872349872 3y ago

Yeah, population-wise US is ~4.9x FR (vous voyez), ~61x SG (lah), and ~31x CH (gället). Then again, scaling by population makes UK outflows look much worse than RU. (it probably puts UK top of the outflows, as scaled CN and IN will be negligible?)

RetroTechie 3y ago
Yes, it would be nice to see these lists be ranked as % of population. Probably some countries would move into these top 10s that aren't there now (and aren't there either if you re-order the given top 10s). Wouldn't be surprising if there are a few countries where most anyone who strikes it rich takes the 1st flight out.
- 082349872349872 3y ago
  rough figures from https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wealth-migration-report-2023/inflows-outflows https://www.henleyglobal.com/publications/henley-private-wea... and https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/SP.POP.TOTL : Top 15 HNWI outflows (2023 forecast), scaled to pop (2022): Hong Kong -1000 7 -1.43E+02 UK -3200 67 -4.78E+01 Russian Fed. -3000 144 -2.08E+01 South Korea -800 52 -1.54E+01 China -13500 1412 -9.56E+00 South Africa -500 60 -8.33E+00 Brazil -1200 215 -5.58E+00 Mexico -700 128 -5.47E+00 Chile -100 20 -5.00E+00 India -6500 1417 -4.59E+00 Argentina -200 46 -4.35E+00 Vietnam -300 98 -3.06E+00 Ghana -100 33 -3.03E+00 Saudi Arabia -100 36 -2.78E+00 Japan -300 125 -2.40E+00 Top 15 HNWI inflows, scaled to pop: Monaco 400 0.04 1.00E+04 Singapore 3200 6 5.33E+02 UAE 4500 9 5.00E+02 Australia 5200 26 2.00E+02 Malta 200 1 2.00E+02 Mauritius 200 1 2.00E+02 Switzerland 1800 9 2.00E+02 New Zealand 700 5 1.40E+02 Greece 1200 11 1.09E+02 Luxembourg 100 1 1.00E+02 Portugal 800 10 8.00E+01 Israel 600 10 6.00E+01 Canada 1600 39 4.10E+01 France 1000 68 1.47E+01 Netherlands 200 18 1.11E+01

TacticalCoder 3y ago

All the numbers in the EU are skewed due to the huge net inflow of millionaires leaving the UK since the Brexit. Most of the millionaires fleeing the UK are going to an EU country. As for where millionaires go settle in France: I'd bet many go to the french riviera, where it's all sunny (and grumpy french people btw: french people in the south of France tend to very grumpy, especially with expats). It's not unlike certain older americans retiring in Florida.

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
Can confirm, I'm in the french riviera, and I'm grumpy.

csomar 3y ago

Does the french numbers count Monaco?

BiteCode_dev 3y ago
That would be weird, as Monaco is an independant country with their own administration and passport. Plus, unlike the vatican, it's an enclave by design, not integrated in the French public life beyond a few agreement to facilitate crossing the border.