5 ms·

The author, while having contributed greatly to Darktable in the past and being without any doubt skilled, has severe communication issues. When he was in the d

The author, while having contributed greatly to Darktable in the past and being without any doubt skilled, has severe communication issues. When he was in the darktable team, he was abrasive and offensive. There is a limit to how much offensive you can be to others, parlrticulaly when you are all volunteers. So, I'd take his words with a grain of salt and take into account the background of all this: a skilled person with a very little ability to speak to others starting a feud with another opensource project to which he contributed in the past.

andai 3y ago
Ok... but is he wrong? Agreed that being too harsh/blunt can be counterproductive, but at the same time, the way a message is delivered does not make the points any less valid. (It just makes the relevant people less likely to listen? Though at this point it seems that hope is long gone anyway?)
- dantondwa 3y ago
  In general, I do think that Darktable's UI could be better, and most likely it could be more efficient. His points are not wrong, but they are also not as fundamentally disastrous as the author makes them to be. I feel the damage that the author caused with his behavior is potentially worse for Darktable than the problems themselves. In a collaborative project run by volunteers, the way one argues and the point one makes are united. Darktable is possible only if there is a group of people working on it. I've seen the author insulting fellow contributors in public forums, I've seen him using the most offensive possible language against people who were being polite to him, just because they disagreed. This is not how you steer an opensource project in the right direction. It is also useless to come and shit everywhere after the changes are done. It is the opensource equivalent of seagull management [1]. I think in a collaborative project, the way you state your point is as important as the value of the point you're making. If you're unable to state your point clearly and effectively, then you should work alone, as the author has now correctly decided to do. Continuing the shitstorm even after his collaboration with Darktable has terminated seems, to me, to be just the continuation of a useless feud. I say all this as a happy Darktable user, and not a contributor at all. I also loved the author's contribution, and found his Youtube channel to be really informative and a fantastic learning source. Still, Darktable has continued after his departure, and the new release, which will come for Christmas, is really promising, with the inclusion of per-channel curves in the sigmoid module, similarly to Blender's AgX. Many other improvements are coming, and I don't feel the project is "crashing into the wall in slow-motion". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management
  - andai 3y ago
    [flagged]
- entropie 3y ago
  > can be counterproductive OP is clearly not. He made a (usable?) version of darktable. I have not tried it yet, but I will. I still have PTSd from my darktable tries. It was such a mess but at this time i thought its my fault.
- michaelteter 3y ago
  > the way a message is delivered does not make the points any less valid but it certainly can demotivate other volunteers, having a net negative effect
  - ukd1 3y ago
    100% - though that's now advantageous for him - disrupt the competitor, let the world know he thinks he's making a better product, cause some drama
    - andai 3y ago
      OP is growth hacking!
- Derbasti 3y ago
  Personally, I think he is wrong. Several of the features he removed are useful to me. Whatever performance issues he quotes do not seem to apply to my installation. And there have been rather useful additions to darktable after his fork. For instance the Sigmoid module, an alternative to the author's Filmic module, which I prefer over filmic. Or the very useful Primaries module. To say nothing of various performance improvements, an Mac version that is not broken, and updated camera support. I've had a few run-ins with the author of this software. He has very strong opinions, and does not accept competing ideas. Good for him to build a fork of darktable that suits his sensibilities. But marketing it as a better alternative to darktable is misleading at best. I read his efforts as a prime example of burnout. He tried to make the community project darktable into his fiefdom, and failed. So now he's frustrated and angry, and slings insults at the darktable devs.
  - ukd1 3y ago
    Isn't this parts of his point; darktable got stuffed with features that a few folks use, and the overall quality suffered.
- ukd1 3y ago
  It's an aggressive delivery, but I think you're asking the right question. From his citations and examples, it seems believable he's correct.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

andai 3y ago

Ok... but is he wrong? Agreed that being too harsh/blunt can be counterproductive, but at the same time, the way a message is delivered does not make the points any less valid. (It just makes the relevant people less likely to listen? Though at this point it seems that hope is long gone anyway?)

dantondwa 3y ago
In general, I do think that Darktable's UI could be better, and most likely it could be more efficient. His points are not wrong, but they are also not as fundamentally disastrous as the author makes them to be. I feel the damage that the author caused with his behavior is potentially worse for Darktable than the problems themselves. In a collaborative project run by volunteers, the way one argues and the point one makes are united. Darktable is possible only if there is a group of people working on it. I've seen the author insulting fellow contributors in public forums, I've seen him using the most offensive possible language against people who were being polite to him, just because they disagreed. This is not how you steer an opensource project in the right direction. It is also useless to come and shit everywhere after the changes are done. It is the opensource equivalent of seagull management [1]. I think in a collaborative project, the way you state your point is as important as the value of the point you're making. If you're unable to state your point clearly and effectively, then you should work alone, as the author has now correctly decided to do. Continuing the shitstorm even after his collaboration with Darktable has terminated seems, to me, to be just the continuation of a useless feud. I say all this as a happy Darktable user, and not a contributor at all. I also loved the author's contribution, and found his Youtube channel to be really informative and a fantastic learning source. Still, Darktable has continued after his departure, and the new release, which will come for Christmas, is really promising, with the inclusion of per-channel curves in the sigmoid module, similarly to Blender's AgX. Many other improvements are coming, and I don't feel the project is "crashing into the wall in slow-motion". [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seagull_management
- andai 3y ago
  [flagged]
entropie 3y ago
> can be counterproductive OP is clearly not. He made a (usable?) version of darktable. I have not tried it yet, but I will. I still have PTSd from my darktable tries. It was such a mess but at this time i thought its my fault.
michaelteter 3y ago
> the way a message is delivered does not make the points any less valid but it certainly can demotivate other volunteers, having a net negative effect
- ukd1 3y ago
  100% - though that's now advantageous for him - disrupt the competitor, let the world know he thinks he's making a better product, cause some drama
  - andai 3y ago
    OP is growth hacking!
Derbasti 3y ago
Personally, I think he is wrong. Several of the features he removed are useful to me. Whatever performance issues he quotes do not seem to apply to my installation. And there have been rather useful additions to darktable after his fork. For instance the Sigmoid module, an alternative to the author's Filmic module, which I prefer over filmic. Or the very useful Primaries module. To say nothing of various performance improvements, an Mac version that is not broken, and updated camera support. I've had a few run-ins with the author of this software. He has very strong opinions, and does not accept competing ideas. Good for him to build a fork of darktable that suits his sensibilities. But marketing it as a better alternative to darktable is misleading at best. I read his efforts as a prime example of burnout. He tried to make the community project darktable into his fiefdom, and failed. So now he's frustrated and angry, and slings insults at the darktable devs.
- ukd1 3y ago
  Isn't this parts of his point; darktable got stuffed with features that a few folks use, and the overall quality suffered.
ukd1 3y ago
It's an aggressive delivery, but I think you're asking the right question. From his citations and examples, it seems believable he's correct.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]