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Mapped: The Migration of the Millionaires in 2023
- p1esk 3y agoNot clear how they determine “net worth” in countries like Russia. Many rich individuals there make money through corruption and the money are being hidden in various ways.
- visitor4712 3y ago[flagged]
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoIn the US too.
- expertentipp 3y agoFunny how looking from local perspective the fortunes are opaque but globally it's quite evident whose money move around.
- gruez 3y agoFrom wikipedia: >Corruption is a form of dishonesty or a criminal offense which is undertaken by a person or an organization which is entrusted in a position of authority, in order to acquire illicit benefits or abuse power for one's personal gain. >In politics, lobbying or advocacy, is the act of lawfully attempting to influence the actions, policies, or decisions of government officials, most often legislators or members of regulatory agencies, but also judges of the judiciary. From those descriptions, it seems pretty clear that corruption is a bad thing, but it's not really clear that lobbying is a bad thing. Sure, trying to influence people could involve corruption, but at the same time don't you want your representatives to be responsive to their constituents? Is a hypothetical world where politicians can't officially be influenced at all really better?
- plagiarist 3y agoWell, yes, if you substitute the context and actual behavior for the dictionary definition, lobbying does appear to be a reasonable thing.
- gruez 3y agoExcept there's an objective difference between what's happening in countries like Russia, and countries in Western Europe, even through the former has endemic corruption, and the latter has "lobbying". Redefining "lobbying" to mean "influence operations that I don't like" is sloppy writing and placing fast and loose with definitions.
- plagiarist 3y agoNo, it's more like refusing to describe as "lobbying" the behavior that became legal after Citizens United v. FEC. It seems wild to just, "oh it's legal and fine," when at least one justice involved in the 5-4 ruling was accepting huge gifts from billionaires. I'm sure plenty of what you'd consider corruption in Russia is both obviously corrupt as well as de facto legal.
- gruez 3y ago> No, it's more like refusing to describe as "lobbying" the behavior that became legal after Citizens United v. FEC. You realize that the word "lobbying" isn't limited to activities that occur in the US? It's a generic english word. Moreover, "lobbying" includes any sort of influence operations, not just the ones you hate that were legal after Citizens United v. FEC. As I said earlier, trying to redefine "lobbying" to mean "influence operations that I oppose, like what corporations are doing in the US" is sloppy writing and playing fast and loose with existing definitions.
- plagiarist 3y agoWe all understand the distinction they wish to make, and your strawman arguments trying to recast corrupt behavior as "stuff I don't like" doesn't change any of that.
- yieldcrv 3y agoThe same things prevalent in Russia are the same things everywhere else Anyone can form a trust and merely write on the paper that it is adhering to the laws of a random jurisdiction anywhere in their country or anywhere in the world, and that paper is never registered with the state but is able to hold banks accounts and titles and the beneficiaries are never known to anyone, or can be swapped out after the bank account is formed Trust net worth is never included on your personal net worth, nobody knows anything The most interesting thing about Oligarchs are that they were raised under a communist system and understood capitalism better than people raised under a capitalist system, who hardly understand communism either. Everyone should study what they saw and anticipated, so you can be prepared to make some oligarch level trades too and keep it as opaque as necessary. You have the same tools. It literally takes a multinational coalition of sanctions against your country and you for this to ever be investigated in a half effort way, and thats not going to happen, and even then the assets have difficulty being seized by countries that follow the rule of law
- expertentipp 3y agoWhat's equally fascinating is how they manage to brainwash and agitate so many people to kill each other, from their remote estates in Dubai, Spain, Italy, France, and from yachts in the open sea. Many countries can be called "rich country of poor people" but Russia, Belarus, Ukraine indisputably beat all competition.
- yieldcrv 3y agoCan you elaborate? If you’re referring to the content and troll farms I don’t think those are run by oligarchs just random working class folks trying to get by Oligarchs have cuts of revenue streams from an oil refinery or a piece of a grain silo, random titles to revenue generating things built with Federal agency budgets given away for practically free when the government wasn't going to own the means of production anymore. Just had to be there.
- expertentipp 3y agoAt least some troll farms were run by Prigozhin, an oligarch. Then there is intense domestic propaganda directed at domestic population.
- blibble 3y ago$1M is now high net worth?
- csomar 3y agoIt excludes primary real estate.
- 0xbadc0de5 3y agoAlways has been. See related VHNW, UHNW. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-net-worth_individual
- blibble 3y agomight have made sense in 1996 when they started using the term...
- southernplaces7 3y agoFor more than 99% of the world's population it most definitely is. For many, many of them, it's almost an incredible, dreamlike amount of money to have.
- YiraldyGuber 3y agoFor many of the countries in these lists it might just be working class retirees who sold their modest family home in the suburbs.
- boulos 3y agoIt's roughly the top 1% globally: https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/about-us/research/publications/global-wealth-report-2022-en.pdf https://www.credit-suisse.com/media/assets/corporate/docs/ab... If you don't care for the global measure, you can focus on your country or region. But for a global measure, like for this map, it's relevant.
- jebarker 3y ago
- mikewarot 3y agoGiven the imminent (<10 years) collapse of Xi's China, it's unsurprising that they top the charts in people with means fleeing. We'll be discussing/dealing with the ripples of that for decades. It is sad that so many lives will be lost in the famine that results.
- vkou 3y agoGiven that I've been hearing that China's ten years away from collapse for the past 20, ill believe it when I see it. The reason people with means leave isn't because of impending collapse, it's because life is better overseas, today. Or because they got their money in shady ways, and aren't interested in dealing with the consequences of getting caught.
- kiba 3y agoIt doesn't collapse until it does, and then it becomes really obvious. Nations can last for a long time as long as whatever keep them afloat are still available.
- expertentipp 3y agoChina will collapse just the day after the Evergrande's final bankruptcy bankruptcy.
- dcsommer 3y agoThat is quite a bold claim. What are the sources or inferences you draw on for this belief?
- Negitivefrags 3y agoThe main reason often cited for China’s downfall is demographic collapse. They have too many old people and not enough young people. It’s potentially possible that automation can solve this problem but China’s economy has relied on relatively cheap labour for growth and the shift from will be rather alarmingly sudden.
- foobarian 3y agoWonder what is up with the UAE or Singapore. They are such small countries.
- BiteCode_dev 3y agoGiven the size of the country and taxing situation, 2100 seems low for the US, and 1000 very high for France. Must say something about the quality of life.
- klipt 3y agoI read somewhere that under the US-French tax treaty, for retired Americans who move to France their retirement income (social security, 401k etc) is only taxed by the US, not by France. So it's an attractive place for American millionaires to retire.
- InvaderFizz 3y agoAdditionally, France is one of the few countries that recognizes Roth tax advantaged status for retirement accounts. Most other countries do not.
- yieldcrv 3y agoThat’s pretty awesome, i hope to corroborate that information
- yieldcrv 3y agoWealth numbers aren’t public if you don’t want them to be It is very difficult to make this chart or any of those lists, they are inaccurate and a subset of people with public shareholdings and other disclosures But it can show a representative trend
- notahacker 3y agoDon't forget they're net figures and the US may be high in both directions (strong pull and push factors, not least because the "millionaire" category in wealthier countries includes a lot of mid career professionals at multinationals) France is also an obvious destination for wealthy Francophone Africans, and has freedom of movement with 27 countries (whereas I think it's quite easy to have a net worth of a million dollars and still not get a US visa)
- 082349872349872 3y ago
- holoduke 3y agoIs a negative number a good thing or a bad thing? Maybe its a good thing and the country managed to equalize wealth more. Unlikely, but maybe.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- csomar 3y agoThis is migration and not creation/destruction of HNW.
- nroets 3y agoIf all the millionaires moved to the same country, global inequality won't change. But the wealth of the individual countries will equalize. Many countries would no longer have the tax revenue to pay for education, healthcare, feeding schemes etc.
- somedude895 3y agoIt's a bad thing. Rich individuals leaving a country means less tax income for education, healthcare, etc.
- mrweasel 3y agoIn theory yes, in reality many of these people are pay little to no taxes, on their personal income. Once you hit a certain level of income you can more or less buy the services and accounting advise that lets you determine your level of taxation. Jeff Bezos famously paid so little in tax that certain government programs designed for the poorest became available to him as well. One of the more famous Danish millionaires have recently criticized the governments plan to target people like him with a new tax. He already announced that he wouldn't be paying it, opting instead to "reallocate his funds" to keep him out of the new tax bracket.
- plagiarist 3y agoMaybe if they're gone we can reallocate my taxes to education and healthcare instead of giving trillions in handouts to billionaires. We could end up with an increase in money available for social services.
- churchill 3y agoIn Singapore's case, I'd say it's because of a strong commitment to free markets, zero capital controls (like, zero), and a long-running history of respecting private property. That's how they got rich in the first place and that's what makes them attractive to HNWIs who want a location where their assets won't be seized at a bureaucrat's whim. After you've acquired generational wealth, your next concern naturally turns to protecting it so that it can't be confiscated at will. I've forgotten the circumstance, but sometime in the 1980s (or 90s, not sure) during a particularly serious oil crises, the Singaporean government went out of their way not to seize/buy off/requisition the stock/reserves owned by refineries and oil companies operating out of Singapore. That culture of respecting private property unless the cash has a serious criminal connection is one of the biggest differences between countries losing/attracting millionaires.
- notahacker 3y agoAnother huge factor in Singapore and UAE is the language and culture overlap with places with millionaire outflows. There are many other places in the world that are unlikely to threaten your private property or demand absolute loyalty to government connected families, but you won't get by speaking Mandarin or Arabic in most of them. More surprising to see Greece on the list, which doesn't do particularly well in either it's reputation for good governance or there being many Greek speakers stuck in much more corrupt or dangerous places.
- ilrwbwrkhv 3y agoI understand people leaving the other countries but the UK has fallen so low that people are leaving it too like it is a Brics country.
- kvonhorn 3y agoI wouldn't have guessed Australia to be at the top of this list. What am I missing?
- csomar 3y agoIt’s close and generally friendly to Chinese money. It’s also a developed first world country with a good amount of rights/freedom.
- defrost 3y agoHealthy lifestyles, extremely high life expentancy, relatively low crime, no school shootings, multicultural, clean air, low pollution, southern hemisphere (less likely to have nuclear fallout), access to land (for those that like large estates), urban cities + vast rural areas, global primary resource supply as a business makes it attractive to those in legal, corporate, Engineering (civil, mech) and related industries. For millionaires from the UK (fleeing Brexit), India, SE Asia and elsewhere it has all the first world advantages and less of a number of downsides.
- wooque 3y agoSurprised by Greece. Do they have some tax breaks for millionaires?
- RetroTechie 3y agoArticle says something about a €250k real estate investment being the only requirement. So, buy a house -> welcome.