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There are permissionless and trustless exchanges like uniswap
by hanniabu 3y ago
There are permissionless and trustless exchanges like uniswap
- matheusmoreira 3y agoI apologize, in my post I meant to say centralized exchanges.
- pjc50 3y agoHow do I get real money out of uniswap? Ultimately there has to be an off-ramp, or it's no different from an ingame currency.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago> Ultimately there has to be an off-ramp Not if people start using the cryptocurrency to actually pay for stuff. That's the point of money, after all.
- pavlov 3y agoIt’s been 15 years and nobody still uses cryptocurrency to pay for stuff. And as you say, that’s the point of money. So maybe, just maybe crypto is actually not very good as money, which is why people have been increasingly desperate to invent new stories to keep someone paying real money for crypto (digital gold, NFTs, etc.)
- ben_w 3y agoMost people don't use cryptocurrency to pay for stuff, but back when I lived in Cambridge there was a nice pub where you could buy your pizza with it, and last week here in Berlin I passed a Subway[0] that let you pay for your sandwich in BTC. Or at least it said it did, BTC by itself is a terrible idea[1]. [0] And a subway. Except the subway was elevated and the "proper" railway was submerged (but not covered): https://www.google.com/maps/search/S%2BU+Schönhauser+Allee+(Berlin)/@52.5493205,13.4111448,758m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/search/S%2BU+Schönhauser+Allee+(... [1] And to shortcut the conversation: Alice: *something about payment layers*, Bob: *how payment layers destroy the one thing BTC actually does provide*
- vidarh 3y agoI paid for something with crypto just two days ago. I don't do many transactions with crypto, because most of the time it's easier to just use my cards, but on occasion it's handy. Frankly, it works well, but it's not user-friendly for non-technical users still.
- lazide 3y agoSo basically unless the existing financial system gets really broken, it’s not worth using?
- vidarh 3y agoIt's been worth using for me when I've used it, just not very often.
- simonh 3y agoI would contend that being friendly for non-technical users is a necessary condition to consider it working well. It clearly works, nobody is saying it doesn't.
- cherryteastain 3y agoI'm writing this post over a VPN subscription I bought using BTC, paid from my wallet. It was as painless as putting in credit card details.
- simonh 3y agoYou are not addressing the point. There's a wold of difference between usable for something, and it being a good use case. You can go shopping in a monster truck, but that doesn't mean it's a good general use case for monster trucks in society.
- cherryteastain 3y agoWhy is it a bad use case? It was literally as convenient as any credit/debit card transaction.
- pixl97 3y agoBecause when it comes to fraud, myself and the average person tend to have a lot of protection against fraudulent actors. “caveat emptor” is a very poor society wide model.
- matheusmoreira 3y agoI've gotten paid for services via Monero. It works surprisingly well. Just start using it.
- callalex 3y agoAnd what did you do with that Monero after you received it?
- matheusmoreira 3y agoTried to find stuff to buy with it. Didn't find anything, sadly. I want people to start using it because then I can pay them with crypto too.
- RcouF1uZ4gsC 3y agoOnce you start buying goods and services in the real world, then the whole “trustless” part of crypto becomes useless. How is crypto going to ensure the landscaper actually cuts my grass. I have to have some measure of trust and there has to be infrastructure to resolve disputes and try to make people whole. Once you have that, you are in many ways back at fiat currency.
- lordfrito 3y agoWhich is why central back digital currencies will be / are a thing. I've also argued that we already have workable digital currency for regular consumer transactions. I pay my landscaper with Zelle. Who cares that it's denominated in dollars? Point is I can already move money practically wherever I want with the click of a button. And that money is already accepted by everyone I transact with. Crypto is a solution looking for a problem. And money laundering/crime ended up being the problem they ended up solving. I'm enjoying watching this space slowly grind down / burn to the ground. Good riddance to a level of evil where the perps joke about the fact they're making money helping criminals "they're here for the crime" etc. 18 months is too little time in prison.
- matheusmoreira 3y ago> How is crypto going to ensure the landscaper actually cuts my grass. Same way cash ensured that. People generally don't pay until the service is done.
- demondemidi 3y agoYou can have cryptocurrency or you can have wildly manipulated assets in an attempt to become rich at the expense of everyone else who didn’t get in first. It’s a stampede toward number two by literally everyone I’ve encounter over the past decade who plays crypto markets.
- injeolmi_love 3y agoP2P exchanges like Bisq use escrow and verification methods with dispute resolution for on/off ramp. There are other options as well for secure decentralize offramps, but bisq is much larger than any other protocol.
- lazide 3y agoAnd why can’t bisq play games and be bribed to release things out of escrow or just steal escrowed funds and run?
- injeolmi_love 3y agoBecause it’s a p2p open source protocol. If you’re interested in the details of how it works, rtfm.
- lazide 3y agoAh, so someone can trick it into doing all the above (via bug or code push) and no one is 'on the hook', since no individual is responsible for everything? And escrow isn't really escrow (in the sense of independently verified), but honor based? At least based on the FAQ. Since things like 'USD arrived in a bank account' can't be verified by a third party. So, seriously - what's the point?
- injeolmi_love 3y agoThe point is self custody. Even if a trade were to fail (it’s more difficult than you might think) the funds stay in you custody before and after the trade. That’s different from a cex where you’re trusting someone to hold all your assets. Someone like SBF could not do a similar fraud, even if such a party existed within bisq. Regarding code, there have been attempts by people to take over p2p protocols before. Most famous was Justin Suns takeover of Steem. Since all the code was open source, most of the community forked the code over to Hive successfully. If a malicious actor tried something similar with Bisq, the community would just fork an older version of the code. More fundamentally, these protocols work because people are incentivized to make them work. It’s quite different than the vc crypto with the big marketing budgets that most people hear about; most of those are just traditional finance reskinning itself.
- DennisP 3y agoSure, but that doesn't mean you have to hold your money at the off-ramp. Just pass through briefly and you minimize your exposure to centralized actors.