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I have a very alternative perspective, especially coming from an applied physics background. I don’t know if anyone has experienced what it is like to be a crab
by BoardsOfCanada 3y ago
I have a very alternative perspective, especially coming from an applied physics background. I don’t know if anyone has experienced what it is like to be a crab, but I know that there are people who claim to have experienced events from other animals perspective, and hundred of thousands that claim to have done so from other humans' perspective, in near death experiences.
A few years ago I thought that NDEs basically were that they saw a light and felt a bit relaxed perhaps. Some facts, without an attempt at explaining them: The experience is very similar between experiencers and involve numerous distinct steps, and while some people only have a few of the steps, they seem to be largely the same. The step where someone experiences things from another person’s perspective, or in some cases animal’s, is the “life review”. Positive and negative interactions from the (nearly) dying person’s life is replayed and experienced from their own as well as other involved persons’ (or much more rarely, animals’) perspective. These are also relived somewhat in parallell, a common description is that they are “outside time” or that “it’s not in linear time” (Which btw is very similar to what a lot of John E Mack’s abduction clients told him about their abduction experience. Similar brain mechanisms, or similar actual event perhaps.)
NDEs are not uncommon either, estimates are in the hundred of thousands to millions.
So, now if these experiences are actually what was experienced by the other party, it might indicate that qualia are the same for everyone, your red is my red, and so on (Why is it always red?).
Another interesting thing from NDEs is the first step (so before life review mentioned above), which is an out of body experience. A significant percentage report seeing their surrounding, into neighboring rooms at the hospital, and all sides of objects at the same time, as well as 360 degrees around in all directions. Even more interesting is that a majority of blind people in the survey I read, had been able to see, and there are instances where people blind from birth could say which people in the operating room wore the same color clothes, even though they could not name the color. (Also, at another step than the two mentioned here, a large percentage of seeing report percieving new colors that they have not previously seen).
So this is about 2% of the strange things with NDEs, I would probably dismiss it if it wasn’t for the richness (often years of experiences, although time is a difficult concept in NDEs, uniformity and not uncommonly, information gained during them that the experiencer could not have known. Basically I ended up just feeling desperate hanging on to a materialistic world view.
So there are many mentions about a nerve system, or neurons or other things as a basis for consciousness, but we must explain that many NDEs happen on an operating table with no oxygen supply to the brain, sometimes for hours, and to people with almost no brain tissue left.
I won’t try to convince anyone, because I know I could not have convinced 20-30 year old myself of this even if I could convince “him” that I was himself from the future :) And that doesn’t mean I am right either, of course.
As a footnote, experiencing things from other people’s perspective isn’t limited to NDEs, Federico Faggin, the designer of the Intel 4004, describes one that happened to him in traffic. He also has some interesting metaphysical view, that seem to originate in revelations, rather than the kind of reasoning (if you allow me to use that word) here, but are very compatible with (to skip to the conclusion) the idea that consciousness might be fundamental, and spacetime not.
- dl9999 3y agoI have a similar interest in NDEs. 30 years ago I "knew" what they were. Now I'm not so sure. Do you have any links to articles about the blind people knowing what color clothes people were wearing? Thanks.
- BoardsOfCanada 3y agoI'm pretty sure it is from David Suich, and I believe I have heard him make the claim more than once in interviews, however since I have his book "God took my clothes" (rating 3 out of 5, had higher hopes) the only thing I found was: Of the hundreds of near-death experiences that I have heard, two of them were from people who were blind since birth. During their experiences, they could see for the first time. They were not able to say which colors they saw because they have never learned what colors go with which name. They could only describe what they saw as different intensities and shades of light and color. So, I'd look at a few of the interviews he gave on youtube and be careful with believing that it was exactly as I claimed. Also, whether this was reported by the experiencer or told to credible people in the room on wakeup, it's still a lot less scientifically rigid than most unreplicatable experiments in other fields. (And a paranthesis, these journeys are within each of us, but about not being sure what NDEs are, if they are actually happening as experienced, they happen in a reality with a completely different metaphysics, seemingly projected onto the (far lower dimensional) concepts understood by the experiencer. If anything I find NDEs refreshingly straightforward with friendly guides explaining things in ways that make sense, a concept of God that is without the paradoxes of Abrahamic religions, explanations for sufferings and evil that don't conflict with a benevolent God. Compare it to the absolute confusion that is UFO encounters, while similar, are full of nonsensical elements and seem designed to deceive and confuse. But about the actual nature of it, what could we really understand?)
- dl9999 3y agoThanks for the references. I will check out David Suich and his Youtube interviews!
- BoardsOfCanada 3y ago