4 ms·

The problem is that nobody wants to acquire Dune to be a critical success. It needs to be a commercial success. This of course implies the addition of much laz

The problem is that nobody wants to acquire Dune to be a critical success. It needs to be a commercial success. This of course implies the addition of much lazier exposition than The Wire, which IIRC never had more than about 4 million viewers. I'm sure it's different in the streaming era, but more and more, audiences are making it clear that they are definitely not tuning in to shows that require thought.

afterburner 3y ago
Eventually special effects will become so easy to do well that a cheaply produced Dune will capture all its facets. Although you'll still need a good writer to make it compelling.
- c0pium 3y ago
  If the source material was better it would be easier. The first book is ok but it’s all downhill from there, and fast.
  - tsimionescu 3y ago
    I would say the opposite. The first book is good, but pretty typical sci-fi fantasy fare. The next books are what really fleshes out a really interesting concept, this universe where humanity is far more advanced than today in a humanist way instead of technologically. They also help make the point of the first book clear - that Paul wasn't a hero, but a tyrant. This is easily lost in the first book because of the comparison with the Harkonen and the previous Emperor, and because we're used to rooting for the main character. But Herbert's point wasn't to further the myth of the philosopher king, but to dismantle it - which is quite rare in fiction, and made extremely clear throughout the series. I'd also say that the exploration of Leto II's psychology in the God Emperor of Dune was the most interesting writing in the series, so that's what I'd consider the pretty clear high point.
  - Gareth321 3y ago
    Hoo boy, that’s an opinion alright.
blowski 3y ago
Same as it ever was. The “proles” want to be entertained not made to think - this is an observation that dates back a long time.
Zircom 3y ago
If anything streaming makes shows like The Wire more accessible and viable as commercial successes. It's hard to keep details in your head when the show airs an episode once a week, and if you're tuning in for the first time you've got no idea what's going on and find something else to watch. Neither of those issues he to exists with streaming, although more and more they're switching back to an episode a week model, but rewatching episodes in between weekly releases is an option now at least.
- dsr_ 3y ago
  We are still in the early days of figuring out what works. One issue: media execs don't know anything except "that was profitable, so let's do it again". Have you noticed that Netflix now has fifty cooking shows, split between one-shot game shows and tournaments/"reality" dramas? "Iron Chef" worked and "Top Chef" worked, so they get cloned and slightly modified. All of these sink. For a long-form SF/F show, what hasn't been done? - two 1 hour chapters weekly - dropping 2-4 1 hour chapters at a time, rather than either single episodes or the whole season - irregularly sized episodes matching the plot - six episodes of rising tension, a flashback episode to explain backstory, and then a finale that begs for a second season (just kidding, Netflix seems to think that's optimal already)
  - dleink 3y ago
    > - irregularly sized episodes matching the plot This is the one I've been thinking about for a while. I'm not sure why the MCU or Star Wars aren't doing more of this. They've kind of figured out how do to different sized plots (Daredevil vs. Avengers, Rogue Squadron) but why aren't they more connected? Why aren't they doing more multimodal storytelling. Have a big blockbuster movie, a 90 minute heist movie, a prestige tv season about politics, one about the military. Have some books about complicated stuff, a video game about the actiony parts, tiktok and instagram as storytelling devices instead of martech, etc.

afterburner 3y ago

Eventually special effects will become so easy to do well that a cheaply produced Dune will capture all its facets. Although you'll still need a good writer to make it compelling.

c0pium 3y ago
If the source material was better it would be easier. The first book is ok but it’s all downhill from there, and fast.
- tsimionescu 3y ago
  I would say the opposite. The first book is good, but pretty typical sci-fi fantasy fare. The next books are what really fleshes out a really interesting concept, this universe where humanity is far more advanced than today in a humanist way instead of technologically. They also help make the point of the first book clear - that Paul wasn't a hero, but a tyrant. This is easily lost in the first book because of the comparison with the Harkonen and the previous Emperor, and because we're used to rooting for the main character. But Herbert's point wasn't to further the myth of the philosopher king, but to dismantle it - which is quite rare in fiction, and made extremely clear throughout the series. I'd also say that the exploration of Leto II's psychology in the God Emperor of Dune was the most interesting writing in the series, so that's what I'd consider the pretty clear high point.
- Gareth321 3y ago
  Hoo boy, that’s an opinion alright.

blowski 3y ago

Same as it ever was. The “proles” want to be entertained not made to think - this is an observation that dates back a long time.

Zircom 3y ago

If anything streaming makes shows like The Wire more accessible and viable as commercial successes. It's hard to keep details in your head when the show airs an episode once a week, and if you're tuning in for the first time you've got no idea what's going on and find something else to watch. Neither of those issues he to exists with streaming, although more and more they're switching back to an episode a week model, but rewatching episodes in between weekly releases is an option now at least.

dsr_ 3y ago
We are still in the early days of figuring out what works. One issue: media execs don't know anything except "that was profitable, so let's do it again". Have you noticed that Netflix now has fifty cooking shows, split between one-shot game shows and tournaments/"reality" dramas? "Iron Chef" worked and "Top Chef" worked, so they get cloned and slightly modified. All of these sink. For a long-form SF/F show, what hasn't been done? - two 1 hour chapters weekly - dropping 2-4 1 hour chapters at a time, rather than either single episodes or the whole season - irregularly sized episodes matching the plot - six episodes of rising tension, a flashback episode to explain backstory, and then a finale that begs for a second season (just kidding, Netflix seems to think that's optimal already)
- dleink 3y ago
  > - irregularly sized episodes matching the plot This is the one I've been thinking about for a while. I'm not sure why the MCU or Star Wars aren't doing more of this. They've kind of figured out how do to different sized plots (Daredevil vs. Avengers, Rogue Squadron) but why aren't they more connected? Why aren't they doing more multimodal storytelling. Have a big blockbuster movie, a 90 minute heist movie, a prestige tv season about politics, one about the military. Have some books about complicated stuff, a video game about the actiony parts, tiktok and instagram as storytelling devices instead of martech, etc.