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The leak about Q* feels like an olive branch to let the former OpenAI board and Ilya save a bit of face, probably part of the terms for Sam coming back plus it

The leak about Q* feels like an olive branch to let the former OpenAI board and Ilya save a bit of face, probably part of the terms for Sam coming back plus it distracts from all the drama and puts a positive spin on things. >"The board didn't handle things well, but they were right to be concerned because OpenAI did have some sort of research breakthrough" Not coincidence that this leaks after Sam comes back, rather than before when it could have made the board look more justified in their decision. This changes the story from incompetence to "it's a problem only OpenAI has because they are so far ahead and close to AGI". Masterful PR move to leak this and shift the narrative

melagonster 3y ago
hope openAI prepared some physical mechanisms to make sure safety of human. p.s., maybe bomb us a good idea.
iepathos 3y ago
Good point about timing of the leak. IMO the whole fiasco still reeks of incompetence and no PR move can wash that clean.
- lacrimacida 3y ago
  In my opinion, the fiasco is still a reliable warning sign and is drawing attention to OpenAi/Sama/Microsoft dynamics. It may keep on giving even if things appear to have stabilized now.
eigenvalue 3y ago
To be fair, Altman separately alluded to a recent big discovery/breakthrough in a talk shortly before all the drama went down.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Could it have been due to him breaking some kind of NDA? After all that would make sense then that they're so mysterious about it, after all they don't want to release more information.
  - flagrant_taco 3y ago
    If the original reasoning of Sam's lack of honest communication with the board was an indication, it would make more sense if that comment tipped the board off to a breakthrough they weren't made aware of. That's not to say it must be deeper than the usual power plays and politics, but breaking an NDA doesn't seem to fit well fromwhat I've seen.
famouswaffles 3y ago
There were leaks/hints of a breakthrough (though nothing specific) before the whole firing fiasco.
hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I don't buy this at all. Just going to leave a previous comment I wrote about people coming up with semi-outlandish reasonings behind why something occurs, when there is nothing wrong with the straightforward assumption (that is, the board was concerned about the direction of AI, which is wholly unsurprising given the board's makeup, the Q* stuff was just another concerning point, and there were obviously personality clashes): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38350377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38350377
- ethanbond 3y ago
  Seriously! The “anything except safety concerns” theses are getting more outlandish by the hour, now bordering on actual conspiracy theory stuff.
  - thaumasiotes 3y ago
    > The “anything except safety concerns” theses are getting more outlandish by the hour, now bordering on actual conspiracy theory stuff. Interesting claim. We know with certainty that there was a conspiracy to move against Sam Altman. What does "conspiracy theory" mean?
    - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
      A conspiracy is an understanding between people to facilitate action toward a purpose. A theory about a conspiracy is when outsiders to the conspiracy try to reason about motives without being privy to the actual motives (if any) of the conspiracy. By their nature, conspiracy theories can be far more wide ranging than the actual motives of any conspiracy will be. This is one of the things that makes conspiracy theories problematic.
      - hnfong 3y ago
        Given that we already know that there was a conspiracy (by the now-ousted OpenAI board to remove Sam Altman), and that people here on HN have been theorizing about this for almost a week now, your definition makes everyone who commented about it a "conspiracy theorist". In actual "language game" usage, it's just a derogatory term meaning "I don't like these unproven claims, even though I can't disprove them".
dmix 3y ago
People always, always want random human bullshit to be intentional, rational, or preplanned by people smarter than the pliable masses. So they claim there's a secret grand motive behind every piece of information that gets leaked. It's to save face. It's all a cover to hide a big R&D discovery they made but don't want to reveal, so they made it about personal dispute with Sam. It's a marketing ploy to hype people up about a new OpenAI product. etc etc

melagonster 3y ago

hope openAI prepared some physical mechanisms to make sure safety of human. p.s., maybe bomb us a good idea.

iepathos 3y ago

Good point about timing of the leak. IMO the whole fiasco still reeks of incompetence and no PR move can wash that clean.

lacrimacida 3y ago
In my opinion, the fiasco is still a reliable warning sign and is drawing attention to OpenAi/Sama/Microsoft dynamics. It may keep on giving even if things appear to have stabilized now.

eigenvalue 3y ago

To be fair, Altman separately alluded to a recent big discovery/breakthrough in a talk shortly before all the drama went down.

wkat4242 3y ago
Could it have been due to him breaking some kind of NDA? After all that would make sense then that they're so mysterious about it, after all they don't want to release more information.
- flagrant_taco 3y ago
  If the original reasoning of Sam's lack of honest communication with the board was an indication, it would make more sense if that comment tipped the board off to a breakthrough they weren't made aware of. That's not to say it must be deeper than the usual power plays and politics, but breaking an NDA doesn't seem to fit well fromwhat I've seen.

famouswaffles 3y ago

There were leaks/hints of a breakthrough (though nothing specific) before the whole firing fiasco.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I don't buy this at all. Just going to leave a previous comment I wrote about people coming up with semi-outlandish reasonings behind why something occurs, when there is nothing wrong with the straightforward assumption (that is, the board was concerned about the direction of AI, which is wholly unsurprising given the board's makeup, the Q* stuff was just another concerning point, and there were obviously personality clashes): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38350377 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38350377

ethanbond 3y ago
Seriously! The “anything except safety concerns” theses are getting more outlandish by the hour, now bordering on actual conspiracy theory stuff.
- thaumasiotes 3y ago
  > The “anything except safety concerns” theses are getting more outlandish by the hour, now bordering on actual conspiracy theory stuff. Interesting claim. We know with certainty that there was a conspiracy to move against Sam Altman. What does "conspiracy theory" mean?
  - anonymouskimmer 3y ago
    A conspiracy is an understanding between people to facilitate action toward a purpose. A theory about a conspiracy is when outsiders to the conspiracy try to reason about motives without being privy to the actual motives (if any) of the conspiracy. By their nature, conspiracy theories can be far more wide ranging than the actual motives of any conspiracy will be. This is one of the things that makes conspiracy theories problematic.
    - hnfong 3y ago
      Given that we already know that there was a conspiracy (by the now-ousted OpenAI board to remove Sam Altman), and that people here on HN have been theorizing about this for almost a week now, your definition makes everyone who commented about it a "conspiracy theorist". In actual "language game" usage, it's just a derogatory term meaning "I don't like these unproven claims, even though I can't disprove them".

dmix 3y ago

People always, always want random human bullshit to be intentional, rational, or preplanned by people smarter than the pliable masses. So they claim there's a secret grand motive behind every piece of information that gets leaked. It's to save face. It's all a cover to hide a big R&D discovery they made but don't want to reveal, so they made it about personal dispute with Sam. It's a marketing ploy to hype people up about a new OpenAI product. etc etc