5 ms·

Pirate Party Ordered to Shut Down Pirate Bay Proxy

92 points by Garbage 15y ago

rickmb 15y ago
There is something extremely fishy going on in the Court of The Hague. BREIN (which is just a local front for the MPAA and RIAA, since NL barely has a movie/recording industry of it's own, and what there is is barely affected by piracy) has for years shopped around in various courts, but has now focused completely on The Hague where it has had a series of favorable results. Some of which, especially the censorship order, are considered extremely debatable within the legal community. This one really takes the biscuit: the utter refusal of the court to even allow a legal democratic political party to defend itself is completely unprecedented. In other news: BREIN is now also suing other ISP's (again, in The Hague), and the court has appointed the same judge that was responsible for the previous controversial censorship order. Attempts to have the judge removed from the case have failed.
- cnbeuiwx 15y ago
  Things like these are only strange if you expect the legal system to be fair. Clearly its not. I think its a parody. :) The young guys behind Pirate Bay are the kind of heroes that hardly exists today because they dont give in to the threats from a broken industry. And the corporations chasing them around consists of greedy, cowardly, corrupted, morally bankrupt old men. Not really the kind of guys we should even listen to. In fact, I think my mother told me to stay away from that kind of, errm, gentlemen...
- mahmud 15y ago
  Isn't the Hague just for trying Africans? http://www.france24.com/en/20120315-lubanga-kony-icc-africans-international-justice-hague-syria-congo http://www.france24.com/en/20120315-lubanga-kony-icc-african...
  - Joakal 15y ago
    If you looked up Hague, you'll find there are many different types of courts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague Not just 'Africans'.
  - jacquesm 15y ago
    There are several courts in the Hague, the international criminal court is one (and they don't just try Africans, they try war criminals from all over the globe). Then there is the 'regular' court in the Hague. Most major dutch cities have their own local courts.
- joelhaasnoot 15y ago
  In other news? Research by University of Amsterdam has shown that the ban has had no effect on number of downloads. (PDF: http://tweakimg.net/files/upload/dutchpirate.pdf http://tweakimg.net/files/upload/dutchpirate.pdf [Dutch])
drcube 15y ago
194.71.107.15 I don't know if they're blocking it at the DNS level, or if there is some way of blocking the actual site. But that's the IP address. Why couldn't someone use any generic proxy to visit Pirate Bay? I just don't see how governments can actually block websites, without confiscating their servers and/or forcing ISPs to monitor and block any attempt to get back online. As long as they've got a server and internet access, it seems to me like the government has failed.
- cnbeuiwx 15y ago
  Which is exactly why the Internet is free. As long as nobody controls it, freedom will survive here.
  - Joakal 15y ago
    Tor relies on some country with Internet Freedom as an exit node. Having many countries with weak or no Internet will make Internet less than free. You need to take action!
- strictfp 15y ago
  It is not entirely unplausible that the way forward for the courts will be to change tactics and make it illegal to visit the website instead of blocking it. At least it won't take long before they figure out that IP blocking is more efficient than DNS blocking. In any case it will only keep getting worse unless we make this a political struggle.
  - Joakal 15y ago
    It IS a political struggle. The court basically ordered a political party to obey and refused to hear their defence.
- rmc 15y ago
  I don't know if they're blocking it at the DNS level, or if there is some way of blocking the actual site. But that's the IP address. Why couldn't someone use any generic proxy to visit Pirate Bay? Some pirate bay censoring schemes do block it at the IP level (e.g. the scheme used by Eircom the largest ISP in Ireland). Just using the IP address doesn't work. Even pings are blocked. I just don't see how governments can actually block websites Courts can force companies (ISPs) to do something, and the details are up to to the companies. Since the Pirate Bay is hosted externally, all the ISPs have to do is block their IP addresses.
awakeasleep 15y ago
This morning our pirate censorship battles were the first thing that popped into my mind when I woke up. I thought how much more effective public outcry would be if we phrased things in terms of the creation of censorship infrastructure. I object most to that. Here we see the criminalization of a note on where to find information. For now, it is only applied to illegal information like the Pirate Bay, but it's establishing a precedent that can be used against anything.
- Create 15y ago
  http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/#Object http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/#Object
- dhimes 15y ago
  I really like this idea. How an issue is framed is crucial to the battle because this may eventually make it to the public. I am also bothered by the lack of proper due process afforded to these bastards. Don't tell anybody, but I am secretly a little sympathetic to the cause of protecting copyright. But that can be abused and without a strong set of guidelines for making a case it most certainly will be abused.
- Joakal 15y ago
  Do you know how to frame things? You reminded me of Bruce Scheiner who advocated framing things. eg instead of Safety vs Privacy, state it's a matter of Control vs Liberty.
- aw3c2 15y ago
  problem a: it is called the pirate bay. problem b: it is called the pirate party. pirates are criminals. naming things like that and not expecting this to be huge problem is short-sighted and I would even say dumb. if your goal is to reform copyright law and citizen rights/protection then why not call your party freedom party or reform party or more rights for ordinary people party. "hi, my name is childharasser and I am your boy's new teacher."
  - Joakal 15y ago
Joakal 15y ago
The Pirate Party is the most digitally-advanced political party in the world. If any entrepreneurs want to fight anti-Internet laws (SOPA, Internet filter, etc) or injustice like this article (surveillance, etc), they're the best party to do it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_party I'm sorry if it's a bit off-topic.

92 points by Garbage 15y ago

There is something extremely fishy going on in the Court of The Hague. BREIN (which is just a local front for the MPAA and RIAA, since NL barely has a movie/recording industry of it's own, and what there is is barely affected by piracy) has for years shopped around in various courts, but has now focused completely on The Hague where it has had a series of favorable results. Some of which, especially the censorship order, are considered extremely debatable within the legal community. This one really takes the biscuit: the utter refusal of the court to even allow a legal democratic political party to defend itself is completely unprecedented. In other news: BREIN is now also suing other ISP's (again, in The Hague), and the court has appointed the same judge that was responsible for the previous controversial censorship order. Attempts to have the judge removed from the case have failed.

cnbeuiwx 15y ago
Things like these are only strange if you expect the legal system to be fair. Clearly its not. I think its a parody. :) The young guys behind Pirate Bay are the kind of heroes that hardly exists today because they dont give in to the threats from a broken industry. And the corporations chasing them around consists of greedy, cowardly, corrupted, morally bankrupt old men. Not really the kind of guys we should even listen to. In fact, I think my mother told me to stay away from that kind of, errm, gentlemen...
mahmud 15y ago
Isn't the Hague just for trying Africans? http://www.france24.com/en/20120315-lubanga-kony-icc-africans-international-justice-hague-syria-congo http://www.france24.com/en/20120315-lubanga-kony-icc-african...
- Joakal 15y ago
  If you looked up Hague, you'll find there are many different types of courts: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hague Not just 'Africans'.
- jacquesm 15y ago
  There are several courts in the Hague, the international criminal court is one (and they don't just try Africans, they try war criminals from all over the globe). Then there is the 'regular' court in the Hague. Most major dutch cities have their own local courts.
joelhaasnoot 15y ago
In other news? Research by University of Amsterdam has shown that the ban has had no effect on number of downloads. (PDF: http://tweakimg.net/files/upload/dutchpirate.pdf http://tweakimg.net/files/upload/dutchpirate.pdf [Dutch])

drcube 15y ago

194.71.107.15 I don't know if they're blocking it at the DNS level, or if there is some way of blocking the actual site. But that's the IP address. Why couldn't someone use any generic proxy to visit Pirate Bay? I just don't see how governments can actually block websites, without confiscating their servers and/or forcing ISPs to monitor and block any attempt to get back online. As long as they've got a server and internet access, it seems to me like the government has failed.

cnbeuiwx 15y ago
Which is exactly why the Internet is free. As long as nobody controls it, freedom will survive here.
- Joakal 15y ago
  Tor relies on some country with Internet Freedom as an exit node. Having many countries with weak or no Internet will make Internet less than free. You need to take action!
strictfp 15y ago
It is not entirely unplausible that the way forward for the courts will be to change tactics and make it illegal to visit the website instead of blocking it. At least it won't take long before they figure out that IP blocking is more efficient than DNS blocking. In any case it will only keep getting worse unless we make this a political struggle.
- Joakal 15y ago
  It IS a political struggle. The court basically ordered a political party to obey and refused to hear their defence.
rmc 15y ago
I don't know if they're blocking it at the DNS level, or if there is some way of blocking the actual site. But that's the IP address. Why couldn't someone use any generic proxy to visit Pirate Bay? Some pirate bay censoring schemes do block it at the IP level (e.g. the scheme used by Eircom the largest ISP in Ireland). Just using the IP address doesn't work. Even pings are blocked. I just don't see how governments can actually block websites Courts can force companies (ISPs) to do something, and the details are up to to the companies. Since the Pirate Bay is hosted externally, all the ISPs have to do is block their IP addresses.

awakeasleep 15y ago

This morning our pirate censorship battles were the first thing that popped into my mind when I woke up. I thought how much more effective public outcry would be if we phrased things in terms of the creation of censorship infrastructure. I object most to that. Here we see the criminalization of a note on where to find information. For now, it is only applied to illegal information like the Pirate Bay, but it's establishing a precedent that can be used against anything.

Create 15y ago
http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/#Object http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/digital-imprimatur/#Object
dhimes 15y ago
I really like this idea. How an issue is framed is crucial to the battle because this may eventually make it to the public. I am also bothered by the lack of proper due process afforded to these bastards. Don't tell anybody, but I am secretly a little sympathetic to the cause of protecting copyright. But that can be abused and without a strong set of guidelines for making a case it most certainly will be abused.
Joakal 15y ago
Do you know how to frame things? You reminded me of Bruce Scheiner who advocated framing things. eg instead of Safety vs Privacy, state it's a matter of Control vs Liberty.
aw3c2 15y ago
problem a: it is called the pirate bay. problem b: it is called the pirate party. pirates are criminals. naming things like that and not expecting this to be huge problem is short-sighted and I would even say dumb. if your goal is to reform copyright law and citizen rights/protection then why not call your party freedom party or reform party or more rights for ordinary people party. "hi, my name is childharasser and I am your boy's new teacher."
- Joakal 15y ago

Joakal 15y ago

The Pirate Party is the most digitally-advanced political party in the world. If any entrepreneurs want to fight anti-Internet laws (SOPA, Internet filter, etc) or injustice like this article (surveillance, etc), they're the best party to do it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_party I'm sorry if it's a bit off-topic.