5 ms·

Wait, I swear I'm not being intentionally daft, but in this scenario my air-gapped system has a (intel) wireless card? And we are certain the ME can manage this

Wait, I swear I'm not being intentionally daft, but in this scenario my air-gapped system has a (intel) wireless card? And we are certain the ME can manage this wireless card? And is actively listening for a wireless update while 'off'? From an unauthenticated connection?

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>in this scenario my air-gapped system has a (intel) wireless card? If you have a wireless card then your system was never airgapped to begin with. Parent makes some wild confusions.
- belter 3y ago
  See page 5 on how the CPU has now just become another peripheral. Notice the Out-of-Band Wireless into the Motherboard - https://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf https://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf Is dismounting your Motherboard what you mean by not having a card?
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >Notice the Out-of-Band Wireless That's just the wireless controller on the chip but its not enough to have wireless communication actually work. You still need a wireless PHY which modulates the digital signal into radio waves, and an antennae attached to actually have wifi. On it's on it does nothing, it's just a piece of silicon that can't achieve radio communication.
    - belter 3y ago
      Your are late for your Infosec Class... "AIR-FI: Generating Covert Wi-Fi Signals from Air-Gapped Computers" - https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.06884 https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.06884 "In this paper, we show that attackers can exfiltrate data from air-gapped computers via Wi-Fi signals. Malware in a compromised air-gapped computer can generate signals in the Wi-Fi frequency bands. The signals are generated through the memory buses - no special hardware is required."
      - KMag 3y ago
        That paper is about sending out signals by writing to memory at a cadence that causes WiFi-band emissions from the memory bus traces on the motherboard. As other have pointed out, doing this requires first compromising the machine. But, more importantly, the IME needs to be able to receive a signal to update, not transmit.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        You haven't read it then. The premise of that paper is stupid. It assumes you already physical breached that airgapped network (which is the hardest part to do) to insert that malware in the first place.
        foobarian 3y ago
        FirmwareBurner, let's rejoice in the realization that our jobs are secure :-)
        belter 3y ago
        You are the ruin of TEMPEST vendors...
        cduzz 3y ago
        TEMPEST is to pull data from a remote computer. I listen to the power grid to decode what you're typing, I monitor RF to see what you're typing and what's on your screen. All these computer peripherals are radio transmitters that can be snooped on. They're also one way only The notion that I am going to establish any kind of foothold in your system that's properly air gapped via TEMPEST is silly.
belter 3y ago
See slide 26 and 27. Bugs re-enable what was possible and now said not possible anymore.(I say, not the presentation) - https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2017/Fahrplan/system/event_attachments/attachments/000/003/391/original/Intel_ME_myths_and_reality.pdf https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2017/Fahrplan/system...

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>in this scenario my air-gapped system has a (intel) wireless card? If you have a wireless card then your system was never airgapped to begin with. Parent makes some wild confusions.

belter 3y ago
See page 5 on how the CPU has now just become another peripheral. Notice the Out-of-Band Wireless into the Motherboard - https://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf https://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf Is dismounting your Motherboard what you mean by not having a card?
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  >Notice the Out-of-Band Wireless That's just the wireless controller on the chip but its not enough to have wireless communication actually work. You still need a wireless PHY which modulates the digital signal into radio waves, and an antennae attached to actually have wifi. On it's on it does nothing, it's just a piece of silicon that can't achieve radio communication.
  - belter 3y ago
    Your are late for your Infosec Class... "AIR-FI: Generating Covert Wi-Fi Signals from Air-Gapped Computers" - https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.06884 https://arxiv.org/abs/2012.06884 "In this paper, we show that attackers can exfiltrate data from air-gapped computers via Wi-Fi signals. Malware in a compromised air-gapped computer can generate signals in the Wi-Fi frequency bands. The signals are generated through the memory buses - no special hardware is required."
    - KMag 3y ago
      That paper is about sending out signals by writing to memory at a cadence that causes WiFi-band emissions from the memory bus traces on the motherboard. As other have pointed out, doing this requires first compromising the machine. But, more importantly, the IME needs to be able to receive a signal to update, not transmit.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      You haven't read it then. The premise of that paper is stupid. It assumes you already physical breached that airgapped network (which is the hardest part to do) to insert that malware in the first place.
      - foobarian 3y ago
        FirmwareBurner, let's rejoice in the realization that our jobs are secure :-)
      - belter 3y ago
        You are the ruin of TEMPEST vendors...
        cduzz 3y ago
        TEMPEST is to pull data from a remote computer. I listen to the power grid to decode what you're typing, I monitor RF to see what you're typing and what's on your screen. All these computer peripherals are radio transmitters that can be snooped on. They're also one way only The notion that I am going to establish any kind of foothold in your system that's properly air gapped via TEMPEST is silly.

belter 3y ago

See slide 26 and 27. Bugs re-enable what was possible and now said not possible anymore.(I say, not the presentation) - https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2017/Fahrplan/system/event_attachments/attachments/000/003/391/original/Intel_ME_myths_and_reality.pdf https://fahrplan.events.ccc.de/congress/2017/Fahrplan/system...