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Like to add some context. The 2021 event cost north of 200billion USD and killed people. A similar event, even half the magnitude, is likely, and very bad. I

Like to add some context. The 2021 event cost north of 200billion USD and killed people. A similar event, even half the magnitude, is likely, and very bad. It is also an active policy decision by Texas. This would be easily fixed by integrating into the national grid and applying some supervision to the utilities. Texas, it’s people through it’s politicians, chose this situation.

fbdab103 3y ago
Tying into the national grid makes sense, but that does not strike me as an easy project. Would likely take years and many tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to get meaningful interconnects established. Plus whatever Texas->Federal code upgrades would have to come along the way.
- giantrobot 3y ago
  Tens to hundreds of millions is less than the estimated $200 billion in damages, at least it was when I was in school. Seems like a bargain compared to even $50 billion in damages.
bloomingeek 3y ago
Sadly, this is a true statement. The citizens of Texas are getting what they voted for. Even if my state offered to help with electricity, which it did in 2021, it isn't allowed because the state of Texas outlawed the help, saying: "Federal tax-dollar help, we don't need no stupid Federal tax-dollar help!" (sorry, went Blazing Saddles.) People died and the gov said it would never happen again, then made practically no changes to grid. Supposedly, the policy was created to keep the energy groups from more fed regs and taxes. In the mean time, it's roll the dice with the weather forecast and peoples lives.
- denton-scratch 3y ago
  > don't need no stupid Isn't that "I don't need no steenkeeng badge", from The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre? (I don't know Blazing Saddles).
HybridCurve 3y ago
[flagged]
williamcotton 3y ago
There is no situation. It’s Texas. That a foot of snow falling all over a state that doesn’t really have any snowplows caused an emergency is well, common sense. It seems really stupid to stock up on snowplows in a place where it is frequently 70 degrees and sunny in February.
- ic_fly2 3y ago
  It seems really stupid to loose 200 billion USD in an avoidable event. And I don’t know the word for the state of mind for risking losing that again. You can but a lot of snowplows, interconnectors and backup plants for that money. Reminds me of London, which of never prepared for snow as it never happens. Happened twice in the short time I lived there. Each time costing a lot more than a bit of preparation.
  - williamcotton 3y ago
    That’s just stupid. To be prepared for a foot of snow falling all over the state you’d need a fleet of plows the size of Buffalo, NYs in every city over 200,000 in the entire state. And then a decade goes by before snow sticks past 10am?
    - mensetmanusman 3y ago
      not really, you just need a massive warehouse of pick up truck attachments and Venmo to pay back citizens for helping plow :)
    - justin66 3y ago
      Strange comment. In terms of snowfall, Buffalo is an extreme example. A bad, but not necessarily record setting, lake effect snowstorm like Buffalo gets seems like the sort of thing Texas probably won't experience until the next ice age. Texas could aim for a happy medium when it comes to snowplowing ability. Being able to navigate the roads isn't a magical cure for a power grid that can't handle low temperatures, of course. It would make it easier for emergency vehicles and utility vehicles.
vel0city 3y ago
Even if ERCOT was tied to all the states around it, it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome. The shortage alone was more power than the entire output of most of the the states surrounding Texas, which every state around was also near their limits. So yeah, it Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and most of New Mexico sent all their power to Texas nobody in Texas would have lost power. Just everyone in all those other states.
- fragmede 3y ago
  Wouldn't Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and New Mexico pull power from Missouri, Georgia, and Arizona in that case?
  - vel0city 3y ago
    There's more and more losses the further you're pulling it out. And all those states were also near their full capacity as well.
    - fragmede 3y ago
      You get far out enough, and there wasn't the effects of a freak winter storm that brought below freezing weather and snow to a state that doesn't usually have them though.
      - vel0city 3y ago
        Winter storm Uri had impacts from Mexico to Canada. It was a major storm for close to half the country. You probably didn't experience it much in Florida, but if you were in New Mexico, Texas, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, Mississippi, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama, Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, or Connecticut it was a bad winter storm. Even parts of Minnesota were impacted with generation issues due to the massive natural gas supply drop. The storm spanned from Canada to Mexico, from New Mexico to Maine. SPP had generation issues like Texas because of the massive drop in natural gas supply coupled with high demand and had rolling blackouts as well. MISO was the most impacted part of the country weather-wise and had practically no spare capacity, and PJM was also still under very heavy load. You get far enough out and you start realize the rest of the country isn't a single grid. The east and west aren't very connected, and from the central US to the east there's really a few different grids with interconnections, which were all getting maxed out without trying to take on the shortfall in Texas.

fbdab103 3y ago

Tying into the national grid makes sense, but that does not strike me as an easy project. Would likely take years and many tens/hundreds of millions of dollars to get meaningful interconnects established. Plus whatever Texas->Federal code upgrades would have to come along the way.

giantrobot 3y ago
Tens to hundreds of millions is less than the estimated $200 billion in damages, at least it was when I was in school. Seems like a bargain compared to even $50 billion in damages.

bloomingeek 3y ago

Sadly, this is a true statement. The citizens of Texas are getting what they voted for. Even if my state offered to help with electricity, which it did in 2021, it isn't allowed because the state of Texas outlawed the help, saying: "Federal tax-dollar help, we don't need no stupid Federal tax-dollar help!" (sorry, went Blazing Saddles.) People died and the gov said it would never happen again, then made practically no changes to grid. Supposedly, the policy was created to keep the energy groups from more fed regs and taxes. In the mean time, it's roll the dice with the weather forecast and peoples lives.

denton-scratch 3y ago
> don't need no stupid Isn't that "I don't need no steenkeeng badge", from The Treasure Of The Sierra Madre? (I don't know Blazing Saddles).

HybridCurve 3y ago

[flagged]

williamcotton 3y ago

There is no situation. It’s Texas. That a foot of snow falling all over a state that doesn’t really have any snowplows caused an emergency is well, common sense. It seems really stupid to stock up on snowplows in a place where it is frequently 70 degrees and sunny in February.

ic_fly2 3y ago
It seems really stupid to loose 200 billion USD in an avoidable event. And I don’t know the word for the state of mind for risking losing that again. You can but a lot of snowplows, interconnectors and backup plants for that money. Reminds me of London, which of never prepared for snow as it never happens. Happened twice in the short time I lived there. Each time costing a lot more than a bit of preparation.
- williamcotton 3y ago
  That’s just stupid. To be prepared for a foot of snow falling all over the state you’d need a fleet of plows the size of Buffalo, NYs in every city over 200,000 in the entire state. And then a decade goes by before snow sticks past 10am?
  - mensetmanusman 3y ago
    not really, you just need a massive warehouse of pick up truck attachments and Venmo to pay back citizens for helping plow :)
  - justin66 3y ago
    Strange comment. In terms of snowfall, Buffalo is an extreme example. A bad, but not necessarily record setting, lake effect snowstorm like Buffalo gets seems like the sort of thing Texas probably won't experience until the next ice age. Texas could aim for a happy medium when it comes to snowplowing ability. Being able to navigate the roads isn't a magical cure for a power grid that can't handle low temperatures, of course. It would make it easier for emergency vehicles and utility vehicles.

vel0city 3y ago

Even if ERCOT was tied to all the states around it, it probably wouldn't have changed the outcome. The shortage alone was more power than the entire output of most of the the states surrounding Texas, which every state around was also near their limits. So yeah, it Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and most of New Mexico sent all their power to Texas nobody in Texas would have lost power. Just everyone in all those other states.

fragmede 3y ago
Wouldn't Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, and New Mexico pull power from Missouri, Georgia, and Arizona in that case?
- vel0city 3y ago
  There's more and more losses the further you're pulling it out. And all those states were also near their full capacity as well.
  - fragmede 3y ago
    You get far out enough, and there wasn't the effects of a freak winter storm that brought below freezing weather and snow to a state that doesn't usually have them though.
    - vel0city 3y ago
      Winter storm Uri had impacts from Mexico to Canada. It was a major storm for close to half the country. You probably didn't experience it much in Florida, but if you were in New Mexico, Texas, Kansas, Arkansas, Missouri, Illinois, Michigan, Louisiana, Mississippi, Indiana, Ohio, Tennessee, Alabama, Pennsylvania, New York, Vermont, West Virginia, Virginia, Maryland, New Jersey, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Maine, or Connecticut it was a bad winter storm. Even parts of Minnesota were impacted with generation issues due to the massive natural gas supply drop. The storm spanned from Canada to Mexico, from New Mexico to Maine. SPP had generation issues like Texas because of the massive drop in natural gas supply coupled with high demand and had rolling blackouts as well. MISO was the most impacted part of the country weather-wise and had practically no spare capacity, and PJM was also still under very heavy load. You get far enough out and you start realize the rest of the country isn't a single grid. The east and west aren't very connected, and from the central US to the east there's really a few different grids with interconnections, which were all getting maxed out without trying to take on the shortfall in Texas.