5 ms·

Games are already working on putting realtime ads in your game menus and signs. Most games are gatcha games and introduce children to gambling and financial tra

by graphe 3y ago

Games are already working on putting realtime ads in your game menus and signs. Most games are gatcha games and introduce children to gambling and financial transactions. This is just what always on connectivity does to the media.

brookst 3y ago
Product placement has been a thing in TV and movies for decades with no blame to the internet?
- graphe 3y ago
  You're right, I amended it to always on connectivity.
- nazgulsenpai 3y ago
  Product placement has been a thing in video games for years as well.
  - capableweb 3y ago
    Decades.
zimpenfish 3y ago
I think Trackmania has had in-game billboard ads for a few years. Although it's not really a hugely popular AAA title...
- david_allison 3y ago
  Burnout Paradise had them in 2008 https://screenrant.com/burnout-paradise-2008-release-obama-political-game-ad/ https://screenrant.com/burnout-paradise-2008-release-obama-p...
  - capableweb 3y ago
    FIFA games are pretty mainstream and have had them since the 90s sometime. I think the first one I played was 97 and it definitely had real ads in it.
    - agbrrw 3y ago
      Real ads but not ads that are loaded from the internet.
      - capableweb 3y ago
        Does that really change the impact a lot? Besides, at least internet-loaded ads can be blocked easier than modding out ad assets from a game.
        graphe 3y ago
        An ad for pan-am or the bell telephone company in 2023 would change the impact a lot.
        zimpenfish 3y ago
        Caused problems with one of the Wipeouts in 2009[1] and that was just on the loading screens. [1] https://www.engadget.com/2009-11-19-wipeout-hd-in-game-ads-return.html https://www.engadget.com/2009-11-19-wipeout-hd-in-game-ads-r...
        serf 3y ago
        it changes from a static object that can be vetted for fit and finish within the game world to a dynamic object chosen at the behest of a third party that can now optionally transmit malware. yeah it changes the impact.
    - szatkus 3y ago
      I recall that Shogo, which was released in 1998, had billboards advertising the real world products.
  - 3y ago
jncfhnb 3y ago
What do you mean “most games are gacha”? That’s obviously false
- graphe 3y ago
  Most games people play are mobile games. Gatcha makes companies a disproportionately large amount of money so they produce more of them. Gatcha mechanics are in nearly every modern game. Most games people play are gatcha games. The most popular games now are cs:go and cs2 both gatcha games.
  - munk-a 3y ago
    I think it's fair to distinguish gatcha for cosmetics from gatcha for game mechanics - the later is a far worse user experience than the former. But, otherwise, yea I think that's an extremely fair statement - a whole lot of games remain gatcha free but by player volume the vast majority of games incorporate some sort of gatcha (even if it's just cosmetic stuff).
    - graphe 3y ago
      I disagree. They're both gatcha. CS may not be pay to win the way a gatcha added mechanism works but aesthetics matter and still are designed for extraction. Any gatcha in a game is designed to extract money. The purpose isn't how fun the game is with or without it, it's the fact that it's normalized in all games. It's an industry standard to have some sort of gambling with real world money for extraction and all gatcha games are used as a funnel for this extraction, therefore I don't see a reason to distinguish them. There isn't a 'fun first' gatcha game, since they're designed to make you buy at the core of their existence.
      - munk-a 3y ago
        I think it's good to distinguish them because there are games like Genshin Impact that have literally no accessible gameplay without constantly feeding money into the machine. I am also disappointed in the fact that Valve has started bundling in loot boxes for cosmetics - but games with cosmetic only gambling actually have a gameplay loop that's accessible and equal for everyone. Games that have gatcha centric gameplay are literally just clout games where you can waste money so that everyone knows how wealthy you are. Both are bad but one is far worse.
no_wizard 3y ago
Anyone remember the billboard ads in (I believe) Ultima Online?
p1necone 3y ago
> most games are gacha games. No they're not - if you include mobile games, sure but they're not really the same thing as PC/Console games. It's good to criticize this stuff but the hn crowd seems to go into full moral panic mode when discussing video games. It's really easy to find hundreds of really good games that don't have predatory microtransactions, just download steam and pay attention to reviews.
- graphe 3y ago
  Most PC and console games people play have gatcha mechanics and by having gatcha makes them gatcha games. If it has any gatcha mechanics it's a gatcha funnel.
  - olig15 3y ago
    > Most PC and console games people play have gatcha mechanics I work in the games industry, and this just isn’t true. Where are you getting your information from?
    - graphe 3y ago
      I would say common sense from seeing free to play shooters, verified by a random site where most are gatcha games. https://activeplayer.io/top-15-most-popular-pc-games-of-2022/# https://activeplayer.io/top-15-most-popular-pc-games-of-2022... Some aren’t gatcha but most are.
nottorp 3y ago
I don't understand why you people use 'games' when referring to free to play gacha. Cosmetic or not. Hint: if it's cosmetic only the game is designed to get you to buy cosmetics. It's still not designed to entertain you. It's simple: there are games and gacha. Mobiles mostly don't have games, only gacha.
- travisjungroth 3y ago
  They’re still games. It doesn’t matter that they’re designed to get you to buy cosmetics. Even in full-on gambling they’re called games. Blackjack and video poker are games.
  - nottorp 3y ago
    There used to be a clear separation between gambling and other gaming. No one's going to get fooled by blackjack. On the 'video game' scene we're muddling the waters by allowing gambling (lootboxes) and other gacha to be called video games. Take your least favorite politician. They probably say they're the saviour of the nation. Do you call them that just because that's what they call themselves? Why accept that for free to play stuff?
    - travisjungroth 3y ago
      No, but I call them politicians. You’re using gacha in a way very different from other folks, a disjoint set noun from games versus a modifier. I don’t think it’s going to be successful.
      - nottorp 3y ago
        I can try and teach :) They really don't deserve to be called 'games'.
  - serf 3y ago
    blackjack and poker were games that were then co-opted into the gambling scene. gacha platforms were designed from the ground up to extract cash, and were then gussied up to look like a game.

by graphe 3y ago

brookst 3y ago

Product placement has been a thing in TV and movies for decades with no blame to the internet?

graphe 3y ago
You're right, I amended it to always on connectivity.
nazgulsenpai 3y ago
Product placement has been a thing in video games for years as well.
- capableweb 3y ago
  Decades.

zimpenfish 3y ago

I think Trackmania has had in-game billboard ads for a few years. Although it's not really a hugely popular AAA title...

david_allison 3y ago
Burnout Paradise had them in 2008 https://screenrant.com/burnout-paradise-2008-release-obama-political-game-ad/ https://screenrant.com/burnout-paradise-2008-release-obama-p...
- capableweb 3y ago
  FIFA games are pretty mainstream and have had them since the 90s sometime. I think the first one I played was 97 and it definitely had real ads in it.
  - agbrrw 3y ago
    Real ads but not ads that are loaded from the internet.
    - capableweb 3y ago
      Does that really change the impact a lot? Besides, at least internet-loaded ads can be blocked easier than modding out ad assets from a game.
      - graphe 3y ago
        An ad for pan-am or the bell telephone company in 2023 would change the impact a lot.
      - zimpenfish 3y ago
        Caused problems with one of the Wipeouts in 2009[1] and that was just on the loading screens. [1] https://www.engadget.com/2009-11-19-wipeout-hd-in-game-ads-return.html https://www.engadget.com/2009-11-19-wipeout-hd-in-game-ads-r...
      - serf 3y ago
        it changes from a static object that can be vetted for fit and finish within the game world to a dynamic object chosen at the behest of a third party that can now optionally transmit malware. yeah it changes the impact.
  - szatkus 3y ago
    I recall that Shogo, which was released in 1998, had billboards advertising the real world products.
- 3y ago

jncfhnb 3y ago

What do you mean “most games are gacha”? That’s obviously false

graphe 3y ago
Most games people play are mobile games. Gatcha makes companies a disproportionately large amount of money so they produce more of them. Gatcha mechanics are in nearly every modern game. Most games people play are gatcha games. The most popular games now are cs:go and cs2 both gatcha games.
- munk-a 3y ago
  I think it's fair to distinguish gatcha for cosmetics from gatcha for game mechanics - the later is a far worse user experience than the former. But, otherwise, yea I think that's an extremely fair statement - a whole lot of games remain gatcha free but by player volume the vast majority of games incorporate some sort of gatcha (even if it's just cosmetic stuff).
  - graphe 3y ago
    I disagree. They're both gatcha. CS may not be pay to win the way a gatcha added mechanism works but aesthetics matter and still are designed for extraction. Any gatcha in a game is designed to extract money. The purpose isn't how fun the game is with or without it, it's the fact that it's normalized in all games. It's an industry standard to have some sort of gambling with real world money for extraction and all gatcha games are used as a funnel for this extraction, therefore I don't see a reason to distinguish them. There isn't a 'fun first' gatcha game, since they're designed to make you buy at the core of their existence.
    - munk-a 3y ago
      I think it's good to distinguish them because there are games like Genshin Impact that have literally no accessible gameplay without constantly feeding money into the machine. I am also disappointed in the fact that Valve has started bundling in loot boxes for cosmetics - but games with cosmetic only gambling actually have a gameplay loop that's accessible and equal for everyone. Games that have gatcha centric gameplay are literally just clout games where you can waste money so that everyone knows how wealthy you are. Both are bad but one is far worse.

no_wizard 3y ago

Anyone remember the billboard ads in (I believe) Ultima Online?

p1necone 3y ago

> most games are gacha games. No they're not - if you include mobile games, sure but they're not really the same thing as PC/Console games. It's good to criticize this stuff but the hn crowd seems to go into full moral panic mode when discussing video games. It's really easy to find hundreds of really good games that don't have predatory microtransactions, just download steam and pay attention to reviews.

graphe 3y ago
Most PC and console games people play have gatcha mechanics and by having gatcha makes them gatcha games. If it has any gatcha mechanics it's a gatcha funnel.
- olig15 3y ago
  > Most PC and console games people play have gatcha mechanics I work in the games industry, and this just isn’t true. Where are you getting your information from?
  - graphe 3y ago
    I would say common sense from seeing free to play shooters, verified by a random site where most are gatcha games. https://activeplayer.io/top-15-most-popular-pc-games-of-2022/# https://activeplayer.io/top-15-most-popular-pc-games-of-2022... Some aren’t gatcha but most are.

nottorp 3y ago

I don't understand why you people use 'games' when referring to free to play gacha. Cosmetic or not. Hint: if it's cosmetic only the game is designed to get you to buy cosmetics. It's still not designed to entertain you. It's simple: there are games and gacha. Mobiles mostly don't have games, only gacha.

travisjungroth 3y ago
They’re still games. It doesn’t matter that they’re designed to get you to buy cosmetics. Even in full-on gambling they’re called games. Blackjack and video poker are games.
- nottorp 3y ago
  There used to be a clear separation between gambling and other gaming. No one's going to get fooled by blackjack. On the 'video game' scene we're muddling the waters by allowing gambling (lootboxes) and other gacha to be called video games. Take your least favorite politician. They probably say they're the saviour of the nation. Do you call them that just because that's what they call themselves? Why accept that for free to play stuff?
  - travisjungroth 3y ago
    No, but I call them politicians. You’re using gacha in a way very different from other folks, a disjoint set noun from games versus a modifier. I don’t think it’s going to be successful.
    - nottorp 3y ago
      I can try and teach :) They really don't deserve to be called 'games'.
- serf 3y ago
  blackjack and poker were games that were then co-opted into the gambling scene. gacha platforms were designed from the ground up to extract cash, and were then gussied up to look like a game.