4 ms·

I am risking getting flagged to oblivion but I perceive that there are immigrants that integrate better than others. Asians and south Americans integrate well.

I am risking getting flagged to oblivion but I perceive that there are immigrants that integrate better than others. Asians and south Americans integrate well. Not just in USA, in Europe as well. My country accepted over 500k of Ukrainian refugees into population of just 10m. They integrate outstandingly. I am not one of the haters that would claim that immigrants are "ruining our culture" but I see issues. Example: the support Hamas gets in certain communities. I would be interested what would Americans say if a huge influx of North African and Middle Eastern people arrive to USA.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
I’m not going to flag or downvote you, but this is a very typical European mentality. We have large numbers of immigrants from the places you cite and they integrate fine. I think there are ~1 million people of Middle Eastern descent in California and again, zero issues. At some point, people have to recognize it’s their own culture’s biases that create the social conditions that prevent integration and not the fault of the people themselves.
- morbicer 3y ago
  I am not saying those regions only have bad people. Lots of good people, just some bad apples. But in USA you usually get whole families and not a bunch of young single men. That's one factor that de-risks the integration. The second factor is you get people that can afford plane ticket (likely more educated) and go through some form of border check. I believe the vast majority of the Middle Eastern people in California are Persians. Again, that's a nationality that fares well in inclusion even in Europe. I am all for immigration, we need it, we are an aging continent. But we should be a little bit more picky and cautious. And I am not saying we should not get any people from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or Horn of Africa, it's just often people coming from these countries have a risky mix of low education and culture that doesn't respect women or institutions. And it's not islamophobia from me, that's why I specifically say culture, not religion. Persians are often muslims and fine, same for Indonesians or Turks. Problem is we can't have meaningful and polite debate about it like I have with you - you get immediately labeled as racist or xenophobe. Thus the sad rise of far right groups in Europe. On this note, I am sad that someone is downvoting/flagging you.
  - bugglebeetle 3y ago
    I’m originally from the Midwest and we have large populations of people from Iraq, Syria, and the Horn of Africa, as well as Palestine, which is a more recent target of bigotry. Look up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Dearborn, Michigan. Overall, those people are more discriminated against there than they would be in California (because the overall culture is more racist against anyone who isn’t white), but still there are almost zero issues with them being integrated into American life. The vast, vast majority of people in the world just want to have peaceful lives where they feel respected and useful and I think Europe is especially bad at giving people from other countries (including from the poorer parts of the EU) that opportunity.
    - hot_gril 3y ago
      Dearborn is the most Arab-influenced place I've ever been by far. Nowhere in California is like that. Kinda funny considering the surroundings.
      - bugglebeetle 3y ago
        It definitely has a unique history, but Michiganders are proud to have it as a part of their state and love to visit for the food and culture! It’s mostly the west side of the state that has issues with bigotry (which unsurprisingly was settled by Dutch religious fanatics).
        hot_gril 3y ago
        Yeah, it was fun to visit. Went to two Lebanese restaurants that were even better than my favorites near home in LA.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    I don't think the nation of origin matters a lot here, it's just that the USA is very far away and not as known for state welfare. Imagine what kind of person from any of these countries would go all the way to the US, especially an expensive place like California, instead of Europe. My family here is from the Mid East, they say the same thing. On top of that, we have freer speech/expression so things are less tense. Also, if you're suggesting the issue is sharia law or something similar, it's weird to list Iran as ok but Syria/Iraq as anti-woman etc. Other way around there.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- locococo 3y ago
  I grew up in Europe and it's not a European mentality issue. There are very serious social issues at play here. Geographic proximity makes Europe a prime destination for all the people who don't have the means to immigrate to the US. Europe has taken in many young men from war torn countries and those men have different standards that sometimes are not compatible with western standards. You can be all high an mighty and cast blame. But the actual issue is that there are different economical sets of immigrants. Europe has immigrant ghettos where police are too scared to even be present. Obviously there are many great immigrants from all backgrounds that are trying to make a better live for themselves, but we can't deny that there are issues.
- kdwikzncba 3y ago
  Here in London some culture integrate well, others don't. How do you explain that with "European mentality"?
unethical_ban 3y ago
Parts of the United States has that problem, notably areas of Michigan. North African Muslim communities that are socially conservative and causing issues.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  No, I’m from Michigan and it’s not an issue at all. We have a ~100 year history of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries and there aren’t any problems aside bigots acting hateful toward them.
29athrowaway 3y ago
Most people in America are against radical Islam. The problem is the false dichotomy that because one side is wrong the other one is right. In reality, both sides in the conflict have done wrong, before and during the conflict. We can all agree that killing an infant or toddler is universally wrong. And under that definition they're both wrong. Excuses just makes it worse.

bugglebeetle 3y ago

I’m not going to flag or downvote you, but this is a very typical European mentality. We have large numbers of immigrants from the places you cite and they integrate fine. I think there are ~1 million people of Middle Eastern descent in California and again, zero issues. At some point, people have to recognize it’s their own culture’s biases that create the social conditions that prevent integration and not the fault of the people themselves.

morbicer 3y ago
I am not saying those regions only have bad people. Lots of good people, just some bad apples. But in USA you usually get whole families and not a bunch of young single men. That's one factor that de-risks the integration. The second factor is you get people that can afford plane ticket (likely more educated) and go through some form of border check. I believe the vast majority of the Middle Eastern people in California are Persians. Again, that's a nationality that fares well in inclusion even in Europe. I am all for immigration, we need it, we are an aging continent. But we should be a little bit more picky and cautious. And I am not saying we should not get any people from Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria or Horn of Africa, it's just often people coming from these countries have a risky mix of low education and culture that doesn't respect women or institutions. And it's not islamophobia from me, that's why I specifically say culture, not religion. Persians are often muslims and fine, same for Indonesians or Turks. Problem is we can't have meaningful and polite debate about it like I have with you - you get immediately labeled as racist or xenophobe. Thus the sad rise of far right groups in Europe. On this note, I am sad that someone is downvoting/flagging you.
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  I’m originally from the Midwest and we have large populations of people from Iraq, Syria, and the Horn of Africa, as well as Palestine, which is a more recent target of bigotry. Look up Minneapolis, Minnesota or Dearborn, Michigan. Overall, those people are more discriminated against there than they would be in California (because the overall culture is more racist against anyone who isn’t white), but still there are almost zero issues with them being integrated into American life. The vast, vast majority of people in the world just want to have peaceful lives where they feel respected and useful and I think Europe is especially bad at giving people from other countries (including from the poorer parts of the EU) that opportunity.
  - hot_gril 3y ago
    Dearborn is the most Arab-influenced place I've ever been by far. Nowhere in California is like that. Kinda funny considering the surroundings.
    - bugglebeetle 3y ago
      It definitely has a unique history, but Michiganders are proud to have it as a part of their state and love to visit for the food and culture! It’s mostly the west side of the state that has issues with bigotry (which unsurprisingly was settled by Dutch religious fanatics).
      - hot_gril 3y ago
        Yeah, it was fun to visit. Went to two Lebanese restaurants that were even better than my favorites near home in LA.
- hot_gril 3y ago
  I don't think the nation of origin matters a lot here, it's just that the USA is very far away and not as known for state welfare. Imagine what kind of person from any of these countries would go all the way to the US, especially an expensive place like California, instead of Europe. My family here is from the Mid East, they say the same thing. On top of that, we have freer speech/expression so things are less tense. Also, if you're suggesting the issue is sharia law or something similar, it's weird to list Iran as ok but Syria/Iraq as anti-woman etc. Other way around there.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
locococo 3y ago
I grew up in Europe and it's not a European mentality issue. There are very serious social issues at play here. Geographic proximity makes Europe a prime destination for all the people who don't have the means to immigrate to the US. Europe has taken in many young men from war torn countries and those men have different standards that sometimes are not compatible with western standards. You can be all high an mighty and cast blame. But the actual issue is that there are different economical sets of immigrants. Europe has immigrant ghettos where police are too scared to even be present. Obviously there are many great immigrants from all backgrounds that are trying to make a better live for themselves, but we can't deny that there are issues.
kdwikzncba 3y ago
Here in London some culture integrate well, others don't. How do you explain that with "European mentality"?

unethical_ban 3y ago

Parts of the United States has that problem, notably areas of Michigan. North African Muslim communities that are socially conservative and causing issues.

bugglebeetle 3y ago
No, I’m from Michigan and it’s not an issue at all. We have a ~100 year history of immigrants from Muslim-majority countries and there aren’t any problems aside bigots acting hateful toward them.

29athrowaway 3y ago

Most people in America are against radical Islam. The problem is the false dichotomy that because one side is wrong the other one is right. In reality, both sides in the conflict have done wrong, before and during the conflict. We can all agree that killing an infant or toddler is universally wrong. And under that definition they're both wrong. Excuses just makes it worse.