4 ms·

>There's still no better training for programming than the equivalent of master/journeyman/apprentice. This is inseparable from the fact that programming is st

>There's still no better training for programming than the equivalent of master/journeyman/apprentice. This is inseparable from the fact that programming is still a domain dominated by white males from upper middle-class families (and immigrants from countries with functional, non-boondoggle professional training and/or demoscene). DEI as a rainbow-wash goes away when organic mentorship of black kids and young women happens en masse.

x86x87 3y ago
I'm not following what your point is. Would there be a way to make everyone expendable faster is it wasn't just white entitled dudes?
- underlipton 3y ago
  >I'm not following what your point is. I'm not sure how I could be clearer. >Would there be a way to make everyone expendable faster is it wasn't just white entitled dudes? You might want to check this for errors.
  - bluecheese452 3y ago
    I am not following your point either. Surely there must be a way to reword it?
    - underlipton 3y ago
      It would help if someone would articulate what is unclear. Forgive me, but on this subject, I've encountered many who are fully capable of understanding, but would rather not. So I'd ask that you try harder. Perhaps restate what you think I mean, and I can correct you if it's mistaken?
throwaway60703 3y ago
I'm absolutely certain there are much more non-white (Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese...) programmers than white. And if we stop with the racism, are you sure it's not the programming that made these guys upper middle class?
- underlipton 3y ago
  > I'm absolutely certain there are much more non-white (Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese...) programmers than white. Worldwide, sure. I'm speaking about the US. >And if we stop with the racism That would be up to you. I haven't said anything that's racist. >are you sure it's not the programming that made these guys upper middle class? That would be even worse. It would mean that the white men who lived childhoods of lesser means and found success in the tech industry, presumably under the guidance of seniors who themselves (under your hypothetical) were more likely to be first-gen professionals, looked at black and brown kids in similar situations and thought, "Fuck you, got mine."

x86x87 3y ago

I'm not following what your point is. Would there be a way to make everyone expendable faster is it wasn't just white entitled dudes?

underlipton 3y ago
>I'm not following what your point is. I'm not sure how I could be clearer. >Would there be a way to make everyone expendable faster is it wasn't just white entitled dudes? You might want to check this for errors.
- bluecheese452 3y ago
  I am not following your point either. Surely there must be a way to reword it?
  - underlipton 3y ago
    It would help if someone would articulate what is unclear. Forgive me, but on this subject, I've encountered many who are fully capable of understanding, but would rather not. So I'd ask that you try harder. Perhaps restate what you think I mean, and I can correct you if it's mistaken?

throwaway60703 3y ago

I'm absolutely certain there are much more non-white (Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese...) programmers than white. And if we stop with the racism, are you sure it's not the programming that made these guys upper middle class?

underlipton 3y ago
> I'm absolutely certain there are much more non-white (Indian, Chinese, Vietnamese...) programmers than white. Worldwide, sure. I'm speaking about the US. >And if we stop with the racism That would be up to you. I haven't said anything that's racist. >are you sure it's not the programming that made these guys upper middle class? That would be even worse. It would mean that the white men who lived childhoods of lesser means and found success in the tech industry, presumably under the guidance of seniors who themselves (under your hypothetical) were more likely to be first-gen professionals, looked at black and brown kids in similar situations and thought, "Fuck you, got mine."