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> Ah yes, those evil eastern European coming to take the poor jobs nobody wants and pay taxes, while the unemployed Brits sleep in late in council houses living

by kypro 3y ago

> Ah yes, those evil eastern European coming to take the poor jobs nobody wants and pay taxes, while the unemployed Brits sleep in late in council houses living on benefits. Check out the series 'Benefits Street' on YouTube. No one wants them because mass migration suppresses wages. For example in the UK we systematically suppress NHS wages to the point no Brit would want to work in the NHS anymore. We achieve this by importing hundreds of thousands of workers from parts of the world with lower per-capita income. And I'm not being critical here. I'm highly in favour of this because it reduce healthcare costs in the UK. But on the flip side it's then absurd to argue that Brits don't want those jobs since we're actively suppressing wages. Like in the past Brits would work in the NHS if we allowed for labour competition. If the NHS was forced to pay more to attract labour then Brits would obviously want to work for the NHS again.

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>No one wants them because mass migration suppresses wages. But then why did the UK allow them in the EU in the first place? The UK could have vetoed this then. >For example in the UK we systematically suppress NHS wages to the point no Brit would want to work in the NHS anymore. Sorry, but to me that reads as 100% as a problem of the UK NHS for underpaying it's workers in the first place. EU workers taking those lower paying jobs is only the effect but not the cause. So why blame eastern European workers for a problem created by UK institutions? To me it read as targeted xenofobia in disguise. Answer me this: Now that eastern Europeans don't come work in the NHS anymore, did NHS wages rise? Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? How do those apples taste? Xenofobia has its price you know. Also it's easy to wish for bigger wages for local workers, we all want that, but are British citizens willing to put their money where their mouth is, as in pay the higher taxes and prices to afford those higher salaries for those workers? There's no free lunch here. Higher wages for workers means cost increases up the chain and from what I saw Brits love their cheap prices and services and any small increase in prices leads to a dramatic increase in people living below the poverty line in the UK. You can't have your cake and eat it too as brexiters wanted. Do you want cheap immigrants, or do you want cheap food and services?
- kypro 3y ago
  > Sorry, but to me that reads as 100% as a problem of the UK NHS for underpaying it's workers in the first place. EU workers taking those lower paying jobs is only the effect but not the cause. > So why blame eastern European workers for a problem created by UK institutions? To me it read as targeted xenofobia in disguise. I think you misread what I said? Low wages in the NHS are a good thing. We're exploiting foreign workers for our own gain – I'm not a nurse so why would I dislike this? I celebrate the suppression of NHS wages. I don't blame the eastern European workers we're exploiting in the slightest. > Answer me this: Now that eastern Europeans don't come work in the NHS anymore, did NHS wages rise? Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? How do those apples taste? Xenofobia has its price you know. Yeah kinda. We can't find enough workers willing to work for the crappy wages we pay so unfortunately we're now upping their wages to prevent them striking. > Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? Not sure what you're point is here? Low skilled UK workers have always had wages suppressed and never had the luxury of moving to the EU. Middle-class people who might want to live/work abroad are impacted though, yes. > Higher wages for workers means cost increases up the chain and from what I saw Brits love their cheap prices and services and any small increase in prices leads to a dramatic increase in people living below the poverty line in the UK. I agree. This is why I'm pro mass migration and pro wage suppression. Like I said, suppressing wages in the NHS makes a ton of sense because it results in lower healthcare costs for British tax payers. Same is true for the cheap foreign agricultural labour we import – it provides us with cheaper produce. I feel like you've completely misread what I've said because I think we actually 100% agree here? Like you, I also want low wages and cheap immigrants. This is why I'm in favour of mass-migration... I didn't vote Brexit so we could reduce migration I voted Brexit so we could reduce regulation and bureaucracy. I think where we might differ is that I understand why people disagree with me on this. If I were less privileged and competing against migrant workers it would probably annoy me much more – and it's those people I'm arguing for here despite that not being my position – I can understand why people voted to reduce the influx of cheap labour. I guess to clarify: > Do you want cheap immigrants Yes, I do, but do you see how this might upset those who must compete with the "cheap immigrants"?

by kypro 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago

>No one wants them because mass migration suppresses wages. But then why did the UK allow them in the EU in the first place? The UK could have vetoed this then. >For example in the UK we systematically suppress NHS wages to the point no Brit would want to work in the NHS anymore. Sorry, but to me that reads as 100% as a problem of the UK NHS for underpaying it's workers in the first place. EU workers taking those lower paying jobs is only the effect but not the cause. So why blame eastern European workers for a problem created by UK institutions? To me it read as targeted xenofobia in disguise. Answer me this: Now that eastern Europeans don't come work in the NHS anymore, did NHS wages rise? Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? How do those apples taste? Xenofobia has its price you know. Also it's easy to wish for bigger wages for local workers, we all want that, but are British citizens willing to put their money where their mouth is, as in pay the higher taxes and prices to afford those higher salaries for those workers? There's no free lunch here. Higher wages for workers means cost increases up the chain and from what I saw Brits love their cheap prices and services and any small increase in prices leads to a dramatic increase in people living below the poverty line in the UK. You can't have your cake and eat it too as brexiters wanted. Do you want cheap immigrants, or do you want cheap food and services?

kypro 3y ago
> Sorry, but to me that reads as 100% as a problem of the UK NHS for underpaying it's workers in the first place. EU workers taking those lower paying jobs is only the effect but not the cause. > So why blame eastern European workers for a problem created by UK institutions? To me it read as targeted xenofobia in disguise. I think you misread what I said? Low wages in the NHS are a good thing. We're exploiting foreign workers for our own gain – I'm not a nurse so why would I dislike this? I celebrate the suppression of NHS wages. I don't blame the eastern European workers we're exploiting in the slightest. > Answer me this: Now that eastern Europeans don't come work in the NHS anymore, did NHS wages rise? Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? How do those apples taste? Xenofobia has its price you know. Yeah kinda. We can't find enough workers willing to work for the crappy wages we pay so unfortunately we're now upping their wages to prevent them striking. > Or are they now importing cheaper labor from outside the EU by rubber-stamping work visas like crazy, meaning UK workers are now also wagedumped and also without EU membership benefits? Not sure what you're point is here? Low skilled UK workers have always had wages suppressed and never had the luxury of moving to the EU. Middle-class people who might want to live/work abroad are impacted though, yes. > Higher wages for workers means cost increases up the chain and from what I saw Brits love their cheap prices and services and any small increase in prices leads to a dramatic increase in people living below the poverty line in the UK. I agree. This is why I'm pro mass migration and pro wage suppression. Like I said, suppressing wages in the NHS makes a ton of sense because it results in lower healthcare costs for British tax payers. Same is true for the cheap foreign agricultural labour we import – it provides us with cheaper produce. I feel like you've completely misread what I've said because I think we actually 100% agree here? Like you, I also want low wages and cheap immigrants. This is why I'm in favour of mass-migration... I didn't vote Brexit so we could reduce migration I voted Brexit so we could reduce regulation and bureaucracy. I think where we might differ is that I understand why people disagree with me on this. If I were less privileged and competing against migrant workers it would probably annoy me much more – and it's those people I'm arguing for here despite that not being my position – I can understand why people voted to reduce the influx of cheap labour. I guess to clarify: > Do you want cheap immigrants Yes, I do, but do you see how this might upset those who must compete with the "cheap immigrants"?