4 ms·

That "pregnant wife in backseat" argument is so stupid, and is always being used to excuse all kinds of dangerous driving. The amount of lives saved by someone

That "pregnant wife in backseat" argument is so stupid, and is always being used to excuse all kinds of dangerous driving. The amount of lives saved by someone speeding with a pregnant wife is minuscule compared to the amount of lives being saved by not making driving like a lunatic possible.

mcny 3y ago
I think this kill switch does not belong in the US. Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. We simply do not have the public transit infrastructure. Come back with this when we have decent coverage of public transit. Secondly, we don't have universal health care. You could end up with thousands in just ambulance expenses if you are out of network. If I am not imminently dying (how can I judge that?), we are driving ourselves. Thirdly, this likely makes cars more expensive. See first point. We can't do that without decent public transit coverage. Yes, we have a lot of people die on the roads in the US. No, the solution isn't as easy as adding a kill switch.
- krisoft 3y ago
  > Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. Do they get a licence to drive while intoxicated? Or people with a history of driving while intoxicated are bared from general driving, but get a special licence so they can drive but only to work and to get groceries?
  - actionfromafar 3y ago
    The latter.
    - krisoft 3y ago
      In that case how is this an argument against the type of kill switch described?
      - josephcsible 3y ago
        Requiring kill switches in cars just for people who have been convicted of DWI is okay. Requiring kill switches in cars for the entire population is not.
  - kkielhofner 3y ago
    They get what is known as an "Occupational License". As parent noted for almost all of the US if you don't have a car you cannot participate in the economy. You can't get anywhere to work and you can't get anywhere to shop. You can't get healthcare. You basically can't do anything. Drunk driving penalties in almost all states include a minimum six-month license suspension. However, if that were universal it would completely destroy lives and have massive downstream effects. The Occupational License is an (on paper) license solely limited to driving between specifically classified types of places - work, church, healthcare, basic shopping, school, some stuff for your children, etc. Not only is it not a license to drive drunk, many of them have the added condition that the vehicle needs an "ignition interlock" device (paid for by the driver) that requires a breath sample before the car will move. Many of them also have functionality where you need to periodically blow into it while driving before the device shuts the engine down. Of course enforcement here is an issue. Many people drive with completely suspended/revoked licenses, no insurance, etc and get away with it everyday. However, many police departments deploy either stationary ALPRs (automatic license plate readers) or have them installed on police vehicles. They're creepy but amazing - I was on a "ride along" with the police once and we'd be driving down the road at 45 mph. It would sound an alarm and have a synthesized voice that says something like "Florida license XYZ - suspended". The cop would just turn the car around and pull the person over.
- matsemann 3y ago
  > Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. And this would stop them from driving drunk. How is that bad? Or are you suggesting they should be able to drive drunk as it's the only way they can get to work?
sethammons 3y ago
And when your family can't drive to get away from a wildfire, flood, tsunami, pyroclast, unhinged lunatic, unexpected road debris, or any of literally thousands of unexpected conditions such as a car flipping in front of them or a medical emergency where waiting is a bad idea (tm) and your family dies, well, at least you can be comforted by the math that says more people are probably safer by the restrictions.
- tzs 3y ago
  > And when your family can't drive to get away from a wildfire, flood, tsunami, pyroclast, unhinged lunatic, unexpected road debris, or any of literally thousands of unexpected conditions such as a car flipping in front of them Unexpected road debris? A car flipping in front of them? I can understand the others on your list as they are things that can follow you, but I'm having a hard time seeing how unexpected road debris or a car flipping in front of me would be problems. I might have to drive erratically for a moment to evade them, but then even if the system decided I was impaired and made the car stop I'd be past the danger.
insickness 3y ago
There are plenty of other situations where the inability to drive could be life-threatening: in a snow storm, on a dessert road, on a highway at night, etc. The unintended consequences of this could easily outweigh its benefit without even factoring in the privacy issues.
- matsemann 3y ago
  > The unintended consequences of this could easily outweigh No, it could not. These rare edge cases have nothing on the number of lives taken by reckless drivers.
  - HPsquared 3y ago
    I don't know how this can even be estimated. There are no statistics on it. Just because something is hard to measure, doesn't mean it's not significant.
    - matsemann 3y ago
      There are easily available statistics of the tens of thousands dying in traffic each year, and the multiple millions being injured. No estimates for the "lives saved while driving pregnant wife to hospital drunk and speeding" will ever get close to those numbers.
      - traverseda 3y ago
        Also no estimates for how effective the kill switches will be at stopping those deaths.
  - BryanBigs 3y ago
    Weather is not rare. This algorithm is going to have speed,acceleration, traction, steering vs direction as some of the inputs. A good rainstorm or snowstorm is going to tough to differentiate from drunk or high driving. Those aren't edge cases. And how long then will the car decide you need a time out? 5 mins? 1 hiur? 4 hours? There is no way this doesn't get pushed back from a 2026 implementation anyway. You can't just drop this in when those model year cars are almost fully designed by now

mcny 3y ago

I think this kill switch does not belong in the US. Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. We simply do not have the public transit infrastructure. Come back with this when we have decent coverage of public transit. Secondly, we don't have universal health care. You could end up with thousands in just ambulance expenses if you are out of network. If I am not imminently dying (how can I judge that?), we are driving ourselves. Thirdly, this likely makes cars more expensive. See first point. We can't do that without decent public transit coverage. Yes, we have a lot of people die on the roads in the US. No, the solution isn't as easy as adding a kill switch.

krisoft 3y ago
> Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. Do they get a licence to drive while intoxicated? Or people with a history of driving while intoxicated are bared from general driving, but get a special licence so they can drive but only to work and to get groceries?
- actionfromafar 3y ago
  The latter.
  - krisoft 3y ago
    In that case how is this an argument against the type of kill switch described?
    - josephcsible 3y ago
      Requiring kill switches in cars just for people who have been convicted of DWI is okay. Requiring kill switches in cars for the entire population is not.
- kkielhofner 3y ago
  They get what is known as an "Occupational License". As parent noted for almost all of the US if you don't have a car you cannot participate in the economy. You can't get anywhere to work and you can't get anywhere to shop. You can't get healthcare. You basically can't do anything. Drunk driving penalties in almost all states include a minimum six-month license suspension. However, if that were universal it would completely destroy lives and have massive downstream effects. The Occupational License is an (on paper) license solely limited to driving between specifically classified types of places - work, church, healthcare, basic shopping, school, some stuff for your children, etc. Not only is it not a license to drive drunk, many of them have the added condition that the vehicle needs an "ignition interlock" device (paid for by the driver) that requires a breath sample before the car will move. Many of them also have functionality where you need to periodically blow into it while driving before the device shuts the engine down. Of course enforcement here is an issue. Many people drive with completely suspended/revoked licenses, no insurance, etc and get away with it everyday. However, many police departments deploy either stationary ALPRs (automatic license plate readers) or have them installed on police vehicles. They're creepy but amazing - I was on a "ride along" with the police once and we'd be driving down the road at 45 mph. It would sound an alarm and have a synthesized voice that says something like "Florida license XYZ - suspended". The cop would just turn the car around and pull the person over.
matsemann 3y ago
> Firstly, I've seen people who have DWI get a special license to drive to work and to get groceries. And this would stop them from driving drunk. How is that bad? Or are you suggesting they should be able to drive drunk as it's the only way they can get to work?

sethammons 3y ago

And when your family can't drive to get away from a wildfire, flood, tsunami, pyroclast, unhinged lunatic, unexpected road debris, or any of literally thousands of unexpected conditions such as a car flipping in front of them or a medical emergency where waiting is a bad idea (tm) and your family dies, well, at least you can be comforted by the math that says more people are probably safer by the restrictions.

tzs 3y ago
> And when your family can't drive to get away from a wildfire, flood, tsunami, pyroclast, unhinged lunatic, unexpected road debris, or any of literally thousands of unexpected conditions such as a car flipping in front of them Unexpected road debris? A car flipping in front of them? I can understand the others on your list as they are things that can follow you, but I'm having a hard time seeing how unexpected road debris or a car flipping in front of me would be problems. I might have to drive erratically for a moment to evade them, but then even if the system decided I was impaired and made the car stop I'd be past the danger.

insickness 3y ago

There are plenty of other situations where the inability to drive could be life-threatening: in a snow storm, on a dessert road, on a highway at night, etc. The unintended consequences of this could easily outweigh its benefit without even factoring in the privacy issues.

matsemann 3y ago
> The unintended consequences of this could easily outweigh No, it could not. These rare edge cases have nothing on the number of lives taken by reckless drivers.
- HPsquared 3y ago
  I don't know how this can even be estimated. There are no statistics on it. Just because something is hard to measure, doesn't mean it's not significant.
  - matsemann 3y ago
    There are easily available statistics of the tens of thousands dying in traffic each year, and the multiple millions being injured. No estimates for the "lives saved while driving pregnant wife to hospital drunk and speeding" will ever get close to those numbers.
    - traverseda 3y ago
      Also no estimates for how effective the kill switches will be at stopping those deaths.
- BryanBigs 3y ago
  Weather is not rare. This algorithm is going to have speed,acceleration, traction, steering vs direction as some of the inputs. A good rainstorm or snowstorm is going to tough to differentiate from drunk or high driving. Those aren't edge cases. And how long then will the car decide you need a time out? 5 mins? 1 hiur? 4 hours? There is no way this doesn't get pushed back from a 2026 implementation anyway. You can't just drop this in when those model year cars are almost fully designed by now