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I'll never understand this particular mindset. I mean, I can get _some_ of the fallacies involved. Pure envy. Scope insensitivity. But it just doesn't explain i

I'll never understand this particular mindset. I mean, I can get _some_ of the fallacies involved. Pure envy. Scope insensitivity. But it just doesn't explain it for me. People buying high end audio gear have disposable income and spend obscene amounts of money on their hobby, and yet they get at most mild ridicule. Old people wanting _not to die_ get hate. How do people even get here?

jbstack 3y ago
It's also shortsighted. You might never develop a taste for high end audio gear. But you certainly will age and die. Unlike many things it's a problem that affects every single one of us.
- airtonix 3y ago
  [dead]
- magnusmundus 3y ago
  I think the reaction is at least partially based on the loss of precisely that certainty: there is a sense of comfort in that no matter how unacceptable someone’s actions or ideas are to us, they will die, regardless of who they are — eventually. The thought of that eventuality becoming unusually distant in the future threatens that comfort. Doubly so when only the powerful will live longer, which will come first, everyone seems to agree.
  - _w1tm 3y ago
    Instead of resigning to “at least they will one day die”, wouldn’t it better to hold rich people responsible? This argument just sounds too much like in Christian theology where the “evil” are punished in the afterlife, which is just a mix of defeatism and propaganda.
bryanrasmussen 3y ago
the worry is of course that in 300 years Mark Zuckerberg will be having his big pan-American birthday part and all the plebes get treated to a 30 minute newsblast about it while eating their gruel. It's one thing to have music of lower quality, it's another to be old and dying and watching someone who was born a century before you gifted with youth and vitality. It's not hard to envision that situation if the rich have access to anti-aging. As such it is a scenario basically based off what science fiction says will happen when anti-aging is available. And people feeling that yes, that is what will happen - which spurs their envy. The envy of this potential future is an expression of the envy of current disparities in income and power heightened by a fear that the future will make those disparities more unbearable and less fixable than they currently are.
- graphe 3y ago
  More likely you'll see all people rent organs; surprisingly EVEN poor people don't usually like death.
  - bryanrasmussen 3y ago
    Sure, Society in its majestic equality will allow rich and poor people alike to rent a new bio-heart with youthenating agents for 1 million dollars a month.
    - throwaway60703 3y ago
      I would hate to have to rely on society to provide services like that. Chances are nobody except the top political brass ever gets their bio-heart. Thankfully, society in its majestic equality allows all people to establish or invest into startups. Total addressable market at $1M/month is much smaller than at $1k/month, which is still much smaller than at $100/month. Assuming the expenses are low enough to still give the company a healthy and IMHO fair 20-50% profit margin at $1k/month or $100/month, it'd be dumb to price it at $1M/month. There would be thousands if not millions of companies offering this service - and a race to the bottom of the pricing. Think about cars - companies are competing on lower prices and better features of these complex machines. There are many models for different kinds of buyers - not just a single option at $1M/month that'd allow the rich to move around.
slibhb 3y ago
Comments like the one you responded to are very common. Here and on other forums, often upvoted to the top. People look at the rich and feel envy. In an attempt to displace that feeling, they tell themselves "I'm a good person, I don't prioritize money, I care about things that matter like community and art and the poor" and also "meanwhile those rich people are shallow and pathetic, all they care about is money". This strategy allows the thinker to hate the rich ostensibly for morally acceptable reasons. It also makes them feel better about their own lack of wealth. People who think this way are often middle class or above; the poor are able to envy the rich without all this psychodrama.
dsign 3y ago
I wouldn't say it's so much envy or scope insensitivity. This is more of a gut reaction people have than anything purely rational. I've been studying this topic ("hatred of life extension") for a few years now. I would say it is caused by thousands of years of cultural evolution during which the only guardrail we had to keep our sanity was acceptance and faith. There are interesting positive feedback loops for this set of beliefs, coming all the way from Genesis 3:24 and The Epic of Gilgamesh (which one was first?), plus more modern incarnations like all our vampire movies. This case of cultural resonance has nothing to degrade it because nobody has lived long enough to prove that life extension is a good or a bad thing, but acceptance of mortality is a cheap and effective remedy to existential dread.

jbstack 3y ago

It's also shortsighted. You might never develop a taste for high end audio gear. But you certainly will age and die. Unlike many things it's a problem that affects every single one of us.

airtonix 3y ago
[dead]
magnusmundus 3y ago
I think the reaction is at least partially based on the loss of precisely that certainty: there is a sense of comfort in that no matter how unacceptable someone’s actions or ideas are to us, they will die, regardless of who they are — eventually. The thought of that eventuality becoming unusually distant in the future threatens that comfort. Doubly so when only the powerful will live longer, which will come first, everyone seems to agree.
- _w1tm 3y ago
  Instead of resigning to “at least they will one day die”, wouldn’t it better to hold rich people responsible? This argument just sounds too much like in Christian theology where the “evil” are punished in the afterlife, which is just a mix of defeatism and propaganda.

bryanrasmussen 3y ago

the worry is of course that in 300 years Mark Zuckerberg will be having his big pan-American birthday part and all the plebes get treated to a 30 minute newsblast about it while eating their gruel. It's one thing to have music of lower quality, it's another to be old and dying and watching someone who was born a century before you gifted with youth and vitality. It's not hard to envision that situation if the rich have access to anti-aging. As such it is a scenario basically based off what science fiction says will happen when anti-aging is available. And people feeling that yes, that is what will happen - which spurs their envy. The envy of this potential future is an expression of the envy of current disparities in income and power heightened by a fear that the future will make those disparities more unbearable and less fixable than they currently are.

graphe 3y ago
More likely you'll see all people rent organs; surprisingly EVEN poor people don't usually like death.
- bryanrasmussen 3y ago
  Sure, Society in its majestic equality will allow rich and poor people alike to rent a new bio-heart with youthenating agents for 1 million dollars a month.
  - throwaway60703 3y ago
    I would hate to have to rely on society to provide services like that. Chances are nobody except the top political brass ever gets their bio-heart. Thankfully, society in its majestic equality allows all people to establish or invest into startups. Total addressable market at $1M/month is much smaller than at $1k/month, which is still much smaller than at $100/month. Assuming the expenses are low enough to still give the company a healthy and IMHO fair 20-50% profit margin at $1k/month or $100/month, it'd be dumb to price it at $1M/month. There would be thousands if not millions of companies offering this service - and a race to the bottom of the pricing. Think about cars - companies are competing on lower prices and better features of these complex machines. There are many models for different kinds of buyers - not just a single option at $1M/month that'd allow the rich to move around.

slibhb 3y ago

Comments like the one you responded to are very common. Here and on other forums, often upvoted to the top. People look at the rich and feel envy. In an attempt to displace that feeling, they tell themselves "I'm a good person, I don't prioritize money, I care about things that matter like community and art and the poor" and also "meanwhile those rich people are shallow and pathetic, all they care about is money". This strategy allows the thinker to hate the rich ostensibly for morally acceptable reasons. It also makes them feel better about their own lack of wealth. People who think this way are often middle class or above; the poor are able to envy the rich without all this psychodrama.

dsign 3y ago

I wouldn't say it's so much envy or scope insensitivity. This is more of a gut reaction people have than anything purely rational. I've been studying this topic ("hatred of life extension") for a few years now. I would say it is caused by thousands of years of cultural evolution during which the only guardrail we had to keep our sanity was acceptance and faith. There are interesting positive feedback loops for this set of beliefs, coming all the way from Genesis 3:24 and The Epic of Gilgamesh (which one was first?), plus more modern incarnations like all our vampire movies. This case of cultural resonance has nothing to degrade it because nobody has lived long enough to prove that life extension is a good or a bad thing, but acceptance of mortality is a cheap and effective remedy to existential dread.