3 ms·

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrel

by rapsey 3y ago

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

wg0 3y ago
The marketing literature begs to differ. The Google's own Family Link app even on web[0] is also a Flutter app. [0]. https://familylink.google.com https://familylink.google.com
- rapsey 3y ago
  Well marketing and reality is not the same thing.
  - wg0 3y ago
    Yes there's a mismatch. As a user one should dial down their expectations accordingly.
- vincnetas 3y ago
  Damn, what have we come to. I cant select text from a webpage. This is not what our grandfathers fought for :(
  - s6ro 3y ago
    Developers have control, if text is selectable or not. https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/material/SelectableText-class.html https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/material/SelectableText-clas...
    - anonymoushn 3y ago
      That sucks :)
    - thiht 3y ago
      They shouldn't.
      - mort96 3y ago
        FWIW developers have control over that on the web too. What sucks is that the non-selectable text is apparently the default.
- devbent 3y ago
  That website breaks the back button, on Android...
  - anonymoushn 3y ago
    And on desktop Chrome!
- drcongo 3y ago
  Ironically, that page just shows me "Something went wrong" which I guess proves your point somewhat.
- thiht 3y ago
  This is awful. Text is not selectable and the back button is broken. Nice work coming from a multi-billion $ company.
- mort96 3y ago
  Wow, the first thing I’m met with is a terribly choppy scroll rubber banding animation on a view which shouldn’t even be scrollable. Not only isn’t it 120 FPS; it doesn’t even feel close to 60.
vincnetas 3y ago
So what's the reason to pretend that you're also a web/desktop framework? This only limits you in mobile if you have to always consider web/desktop.
- MrDresden 3y ago
  Frankly just the standard practice of over-promise and underdeliver, for marketing purposes. Flutter would be far from being the first framework to do this.
realusername 3y ago
The web target is not completely useless, if you want to add some kind of app demo on your website, it's pretty good for that purpose. It's not ready as a full platform though like mobile & desktop, that's for sure.
- mikhael28 3y ago
  Our sales team uses the web version of our mobile app to do sales presentations. It is very useful.
rob74 3y ago
So then, if you want to have a really cross-platform app, ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Or, otherwise said: if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.
- candiodari 3y ago
  You know, this is a solved problem. Qt, for example, can easily do it (and has been able to do it for 10+ years, from microcontrollers to phones). And, just saying, QT is damn fast, a necessity if you want to work on microcontrollers of course. And yes, you can do it without royalties, without paying for QT, and in multiple languages (at least C++ and Python work pretty well). (oh, and QT supports 3d, on the web, on android, on ios, and on desktop, even on microcontrollers if needed) And yes, Javascript's advantage has been that it was cross-platform pretty early on. Not particularly fast though, not even decades later. And everybody keeps pointing out the same shortcoming: these frameworks let you share a lot of code, but mostly not the actual "View" (the V in model/view/controller) code, due to screen sizes, whether the UI can be resized, extra functionality (e.g. statusbar/notifications/...) That's why new frameworks come out, because "why can't notifications on Windows work the same as on android?". "Why not just share UI?". Unfortunately, there's very good reasons they cannot work the same ... So a couple years in, these frameworks develop the exact same problems.
- rapsey 3y ago
  > if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche. No it is not. Mobile apps are thriving. It is desktop apps that are niche now. > ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Quite possibly yes.
  - rob74 3y ago
    I meant it's a small niche for Flutter to address only the apps that want to be cross-platform, don't want to invest into having "native" iOS and Android versions, but are Ok with using a different technology for desktop/web (or don't need those).
ffgjgf1 3y ago
Then it’s not bringing something particular new or useful to the table? Xamarin/mono already tried almost the same approach years ago and it clearly failed..
- rapsey 3y ago
  Did it fail because it is impossible, because of poor execution, poor dev experience or it was simply too early? Flutter seems to be quite popular.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    All these frameworks are leaky abstractions, they only avoid mastering the underlying platform as long as people stay on the happy path.
sgt 3y ago
There is a use case for Flutter Web and that is an extremely simple user interface such a form or a simple workflow, which can share code with e.g. a mobile app. Other than that I agree - Flutter web is not going to be a good choice and that was never really the goal for them, I believe.
- rapsey 3y ago
  Extremely simple user interface can be done in anything and code sharing is irrelevant for it though.
  - sgt 3y ago
    Fair enough, but if the interface is simple yet has somewhat complex validation logic, it may just make sense.
- rokkitmensch 3y ago
  In that case, would be wrong with...a form? Postback never died.

by rapsey 3y ago

Flutter is mainly a mobile framework. Electron owns the desktop, anyone using flutter on the web is crazy. While you're points are valid, they are kind of irrelevant.

wg0 3y ago

The marketing literature begs to differ. The Google's own Family Link app even on web[0] is also a Flutter app. [0]. https://familylink.google.com https://familylink.google.com

rapsey 3y ago
Well marketing and reality is not the same thing.
- wg0 3y ago
  Yes there's a mismatch. As a user one should dial down their expectations accordingly.
vincnetas 3y ago
Damn, what have we come to. I cant select text from a webpage. This is not what our grandfathers fought for :(
- s6ro 3y ago
  Developers have control, if text is selectable or not. https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/material/SelectableText-class.html https://api.flutter.dev/flutter/material/SelectableText-clas...
  - anonymoushn 3y ago
    That sucks :)
  - thiht 3y ago
    They shouldn't.
    - mort96 3y ago
      FWIW developers have control over that on the web too. What sucks is that the non-selectable text is apparently the default.
devbent 3y ago
That website breaks the back button, on Android...
- anonymoushn 3y ago
  And on desktop Chrome!
drcongo 3y ago
Ironically, that page just shows me "Something went wrong" which I guess proves your point somewhat.
thiht 3y ago
This is awful. Text is not selectable and the back button is broken. Nice work coming from a multi-billion $ company.
mort96 3y ago
Wow, the first thing I’m met with is a terribly choppy scroll rubber banding animation on a view which shouldn’t even be scrollable. Not only isn’t it 120 FPS; it doesn’t even feel close to 60.

vincnetas 3y ago

So what's the reason to pretend that you're also a web/desktop framework? This only limits you in mobile if you have to always consider web/desktop.

MrDresden 3y ago
Frankly just the standard practice of over-promise and underdeliver, for marketing purposes. Flutter would be far from being the first framework to do this.

realusername 3y ago

The web target is not completely useless, if you want to add some kind of app demo on your website, it's pretty good for that purpose. It's not ready as a full platform though like mobile & desktop, that's for sure.

mikhael28 3y ago
Our sales team uses the web version of our mobile app to do sales presentations. It is very useful.

rob74 3y ago

So then, if you want to have a really cross-platform app, ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Or, otherwise said: if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche.

candiodari 3y ago
You know, this is a solved problem. Qt, for example, can easily do it (and has been able to do it for 10+ years, from microcontrollers to phones). And, just saying, QT is damn fast, a necessity if you want to work on microcontrollers of course. And yes, you can do it without royalties, without paying for QT, and in multiple languages (at least C++ and Python work pretty well). (oh, and QT supports 3d, on the web, on android, on ios, and on desktop, even on microcontrollers if needed) And yes, Javascript's advantage has been that it was cross-platform pretty early on. Not particularly fast though, not even decades later. And everybody keeps pointing out the same shortcoming: these frameworks let you share a lot of code, but mostly not the actual "View" (the V in model/view/controller) code, due to screen sizes, whether the UI can be resized, extra functionality (e.g. statusbar/notifications/...) That's why new frameworks come out, because "why can't notifications on Windows work the same as on android?". "Why not just share UI?". Unfortunately, there's very good reasons they cannot work the same ... So a couple years in, these frameworks develop the exact same problems.
rapsey 3y ago
> if Flutter is only relevant for apps, that's a pretty small niche. No it is not. Mobile apps are thriving. It is desktop apps that are niche now. > ditching Flutter and using web tech for mobile too sounds like the better bet? Quite possibly yes.
- rob74 3y ago
  I meant it's a small niche for Flutter to address only the apps that want to be cross-platform, don't want to invest into having "native" iOS and Android versions, but are Ok with using a different technology for desktop/web (or don't need those).

ffgjgf1 3y ago

Then it’s not bringing something particular new or useful to the table? Xamarin/mono already tried almost the same approach years ago and it clearly failed..

rapsey 3y ago
Did it fail because it is impossible, because of poor execution, poor dev experience or it was simply too early? Flutter seems to be quite popular.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  All these frameworks are leaky abstractions, they only avoid mastering the underlying platform as long as people stay on the happy path.

sgt 3y ago

There is a use case for Flutter Web and that is an extremely simple user interface such a form or a simple workflow, which can share code with e.g. a mobile app. Other than that I agree - Flutter web is not going to be a good choice and that was never really the goal for them, I believe.

rapsey 3y ago
Extremely simple user interface can be done in anything and code sharing is irrelevant for it though.
- sgt 3y ago
  Fair enough, but if the interface is simple yet has somewhat complex validation logic, it may just make sense.
rokkitmensch 3y ago
In that case, would be wrong with...a form? Postback never died.