4 ms·

ESA has made some amazing contributions to probe and robotic missions. I really wish Europeans weren't always so cynical about the agency; some positive attenti

by sho_hn 3y ago

ESA has made some amazing contributions to probe and robotic missions. I really wish Europeans weren't always so cynical about the agency; some positive attention might do a lot to light the fire, too.

alfredpawney 3y ago
Thats a good point and it would be nice if humanity could divide and conquer responsibilitys in a more effective way. I mean It would be nice if Europe would specialize in deep space vehicles if this is what their best at. They could allow SpaceX and the Chinese to compete for the Earth/Mars ship & cycler market, while Europe could step one step further distant. and become the king of ultra-long-haul journeys such as between Jupiter’s moons, the asteroids, etc. Eventually this could culminate in Europe leading the creation of modern, state of the art new vehicles to run the Grand Tour and go so fast they outrace the Voyagers. ..Somewhere in these paragraphs I totaly forgot to make a good pun about ruling Europa
- sho_hn 3y ago
  > and become the king of ultra-long-haul journeys In terms of "looking far away", Euclid is pretty amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_(spacecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_(spacecraft)
  - alfredpawney 3y ago
    Incredible
mschuster91 3y ago
> I really wish Europeans weren't always so cynical about the agency It's hard to be anything else but that given the colossal failures of so many so expensive European projects. So much inefficiency and waste just because we can't get our shit together. We try to be a second USA, but we lack the willpower to do so - we have no clear, democratically backed European leadership (just look into how von der Leyen got into office!), the leadership that we do have is 90% incompetent duds that were shifted off to Brussels because their host countries wanted to get rid of them, the parliament can't even submit own proposals for laws, and the EU barely has any federal tax income so its budget is almost exclusively member state contributions and debt. On top of that, many countries choose to propose highly unpopular laws in Brussels, get them passed there, and blame "the EU" when local voters get enraged.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  Well when you want to look at the absolute maximum waste of resources just look at SLS. It's just government space that's inefficient. This is not limited to Europe. And I personally don't want us to be a second USA. I don't want that high level of crime and social inequality, low level of social welfare etc. Extreme prices of medical care in the US. Ubiquitous firearms. Here we do care about the climate, about privacy, work-life balance (holidays) and so many other things the US doesn't care about. The US measures everything in money. We don't. Quality of life is not about who produces the most billionaires. The EU is not a great institution I have to admit but I wouldn't trade it for the US. Here I just go to the doctor when I'm sick and I don't have to even whip out my wallet. Von der Leyen is not the sharpest tool but EU presidents are chosen to be the least offensive to everyone's national interests, not to be some strongman leader. I'd much rather have her in that position than someone like Trump. We don't have a political system trying to tear itself apart. We're doing just great and launch capability is a tiny rounding error in the equation of what being in the EU means to citizens. It's like Africa laughing at us because we're so inefficient at producing bananas. Sure if you ignore literally everything else it looks like they're better.
  - guappa 3y ago
    I thought von der leyen was picked to be the most offensive to all of southern europe? Anyway, there is no such thing as president of the eu.
  - admissionsguy 3y ago
    > Here I just go to the doctor when I'm sick and I don't have to even whip out my wallet. Except when your state provided healthcare ends up inadequate and you find out there are no other options. Except when your family member ends up uninsured and you find out insurance is actually tied to employment, just like in the US. Except when you need dental care which costs as much as in the US, but your salary is 4x lower and taxes 2x higher.
    - binarno_sp 3y ago
      What are you talking about? The insurance is not tied to the job, it is tied to the income. No income = free insurance.

by sho_hn 3y ago

alfredpawney 3y ago

Thats a good point and it would be nice if humanity could divide and conquer responsibilitys in a more effective way. I mean It would be nice if Europe would specialize in deep space vehicles if this is what their best at. They could allow SpaceX and the Chinese to compete for the Earth/Mars ship & cycler market, while Europe could step one step further distant. and become the king of ultra-long-haul journeys such as between Jupiter’s moons, the asteroids, etc. Eventually this could culminate in Europe leading the creation of modern, state of the art new vehicles to run the Grand Tour and go so fast they outrace the Voyagers. ..Somewhere in these paragraphs I totaly forgot to make a good pun about ruling Europa

sho_hn 3y ago
> and become the king of ultra-long-haul journeys In terms of "looking far away", Euclid is pretty amazing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_(spacecraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euclid_(spacecraft)
- alfredpawney 3y ago
  Incredible

mschuster91 3y ago

> I really wish Europeans weren't always so cynical about the agency It's hard to be anything else but that given the colossal failures of so many so expensive European projects. So much inefficiency and waste just because we can't get our shit together. We try to be a second USA, but we lack the willpower to do so - we have no clear, democratically backed European leadership (just look into how von der Leyen got into office!), the leadership that we do have is 90% incompetent duds that were shifted off to Brussels because their host countries wanted to get rid of them, the parliament can't even submit own proposals for laws, and the EU barely has any federal tax income so its budget is almost exclusively member state contributions and debt. On top of that, many countries choose to propose highly unpopular laws in Brussels, get them passed there, and blame "the EU" when local voters get enraged.

wkat4242 3y ago
Well when you want to look at the absolute maximum waste of resources just look at SLS. It's just government space that's inefficient. This is not limited to Europe. And I personally don't want us to be a second USA. I don't want that high level of crime and social inequality, low level of social welfare etc. Extreme prices of medical care in the US. Ubiquitous firearms. Here we do care about the climate, about privacy, work-life balance (holidays) and so many other things the US doesn't care about. The US measures everything in money. We don't. Quality of life is not about who produces the most billionaires. The EU is not a great institution I have to admit but I wouldn't trade it for the US. Here I just go to the doctor when I'm sick and I don't have to even whip out my wallet. Von der Leyen is not the sharpest tool but EU presidents are chosen to be the least offensive to everyone's national interests, not to be some strongman leader. I'd much rather have her in that position than someone like Trump. We don't have a political system trying to tear itself apart. We're doing just great and launch capability is a tiny rounding error in the equation of what being in the EU means to citizens. It's like Africa laughing at us because we're so inefficient at producing bananas. Sure if you ignore literally everything else it looks like they're better.
- guappa 3y ago
  I thought von der leyen was picked to be the most offensive to all of southern europe? Anyway, there is no such thing as president of the eu.
- admissionsguy 3y ago
  > Here I just go to the doctor when I'm sick and I don't have to even whip out my wallet. Except when your state provided healthcare ends up inadequate and you find out there are no other options. Except when your family member ends up uninsured and you find out insurance is actually tied to employment, just like in the US. Except when you need dental care which costs as much as in the US, but your salary is 4x lower and taxes 2x higher.
  - binarno_sp 3y ago
    What are you talking about? The insurance is not tied to the job, it is tied to the income. No income = free insurance.