4 ms·

Everyone uses Python

by devnullbrain 3y ago

spoiler 3y ago
People complain about various python and its ecosystem's quirks all the time, though!
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  You don't need to use its ecosystem at all to use it as a replacement for sh
theonemind 3y ago
I complain about Python all of the time. 1. seems to frequently get used for large products where people should really do strong static typing 2. Python 2 to 3 fiasco 3. Packaging and venvs and dependencies are a mess. 3a. versioning of dependencies. culturally handled in a slapdash kind of manner. 3b. Managing multiple versions of Python on my system, and multiple venvs per version. 4. not a functional language 5. Insanely, ridiculously slow compared to something like C. Slow even by the standards of scripting languages. 6. Python culture doesn't seem to acknowledge that regular users that don't care at all what language you used and want an executable, not a hot-glue build-your-own-environment hobby kit. 7. Pervasive culture of weak backward compat in libraries. 8. The pip devs are opinionated, and frankly user-hostile in my opinion, breaking backward UX convention, deprecating, general high-handed ivory-tower dev behavior. 9. I'd complain about the GIL, and a lot of people do, but I actually personally don't care. Maybe I covered it with the slow runtime and care indirectly. Every time I encounter something written in Python I just mentally groan and roll my eyes. I genuinely don't like Python. Some of what I enumerated obviously bleeds into culture and ecosystem, but in practical terms for practical use, that's not so cleanly separable from the language in a lot of cases. Perl was always great about backwards compat and documentation, Ruby had a strong web dev bent because of rails, blahblah.
- devnullbrain 3y ago
  These are mostly complaints about Python the development language, not Python the sh alternative.
  - fooker 3y ago
    Python sucks as an sh alternative. And as not many people use it as an sh alternative, not many complaints about it. Something as simple as `./foo.sh file.txt | grep bar | tail -n1 | awk '{print($1)}'` would look ugly and convoluted in python.

Everyone uses Python

spoiler 3y ago

People complain about various python and its ecosystem's quirks all the time, though!

devnullbrain 3y ago
You don't need to use its ecosystem at all to use it as a replacement for sh

theonemind 3y ago

I complain about Python all of the time. 1. seems to frequently get used for large products where people should really do strong static typing 2. Python 2 to 3 fiasco 3. Packaging and venvs and dependencies are a mess. 3a. versioning of dependencies. culturally handled in a slapdash kind of manner. 3b. Managing multiple versions of Python on my system, and multiple venvs per version. 4. not a functional language 5. Insanely, ridiculously slow compared to something like C. Slow even by the standards of scripting languages. 6. Python culture doesn't seem to acknowledge that regular users that don't care at all what language you used and want an executable, not a hot-glue build-your-own-environment hobby kit. 7. Pervasive culture of weak backward compat in libraries. 8. The pip devs are opinionated, and frankly user-hostile in my opinion, breaking backward UX convention, deprecating, general high-handed ivory-tower dev behavior. 9. I'd complain about the GIL, and a lot of people do, but I actually personally don't care. Maybe I covered it with the slow runtime and care indirectly. Every time I encounter something written in Python I just mentally groan and roll my eyes. I genuinely don't like Python. Some of what I enumerated obviously bleeds into culture and ecosystem, but in practical terms for practical use, that's not so cleanly separable from the language in a lot of cases. Perl was always great about backwards compat and documentation, Ruby had a strong web dev bent because of rails, blahblah.

devnullbrain 3y ago
These are mostly complaints about Python the development language, not Python the sh alternative.
- fooker 3y ago
  Python sucks as an sh alternative. And as not many people use it as an sh alternative, not many complaints about it. Something as simple as `./foo.sh file.txt | grep bar | tail -n1 | awk '{print($1)}'` would look ugly and convoluted in python.