3 ms·

I reinterpret Chomsky "Students who have such little foresight and so acquire large debts putting themselves through school are unlikely to acquire the capacity

I reinterpret Chomsky "Students who have such little foresight and so acquire large debts putting themselves through school are unlikely to acquire the capacity to think about changing society. " The op is complaining about having a cush job. He should try construction, garbage, policing, working in ER, etc.

hindsightbias 3y ago
“Then I’m going to a cabin in the woods.” I get him about 3 months ouut there.
- black_13 3y ago
  [dead]
kstrauser 3y ago
I've done a couple of those, and there's no such thing as a cush job. My current career is usually done from a comfy desk setup, but it's just as hard as the physical work, in a different way.
- ravenstine 3y ago
  Programming can be very challenging mentally and very exhausting. Maybe it's cushier when working on one's own code, but spending day after day untangling messes in corporate codebases is absolutely draining. There are days I wish my work was physical because there'd be something to show for it. Not only is programming difficult, but a hard day's work doesn't clearly deliver value a lot of the time. For instance, I really couldn't tell you what I've built in the last year that brought value to customers. I know I've fixed things... but none of that means anything to anyone who didn't report or fix those issues. They shouldn't have existed in the first place.
  - kstrauser 3y ago
    I understand you. My buddy’s a general contractor, and he said it feels good to drive down a street and say “I built that house, and put that roof on, and remodeled that one…” I wouldn’t swap places with him, but I do envy him that.
000ooo000 3y ago
"Shut up, you have it easy" is such an incredibly shallow perspective for someone who started by quoting Chomsky
TheOtherHobbes 3y ago
It's not a cush job. Corporate work can be mentally and emotionally crushing because there's no agency and no reward. You don't get to see the end product, you don't get to see users enjoying - or not - the end product, and even if that weren't true you still have almost no agency to improve the end product. Being a doctor in ER can be horrific, but at least you have some control over what's happening [1]. And sometimes people will be really, really grateful. [1] As long as you don't have to ask insurers to pre-approve anything.
strken 3y ago
I've got a collection of anecdotes from people who've done both kinds of work. Usually the take is more nuanced. My father did forestry for a while, and said it was less stressful than his later work as a teacher. A friend dropped out of uni to be a gardener. Some other friends worked as cops and thought the worst thing was the shift work. Meanwhile, construction and ER are said to be awful because of the long hours and awful management, factors they often share with corporate tech jobs.
coolThingsFirst 3y ago
Idealistic bullshit. Thats how it is in the US. It’s funny anti-college spokespeople all have Phds which gives them credibility.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
financltravsty 3y ago
I've done various manual labor (both skilled and unskilled). I would 100% go back into plumbing if the U.S. had a social safety net. Have a fulfilling job where you get to see the product of all your hard work at the end of the day? Check. Ability to turn your mind off after work and actually sleep well? Check. Fresh air, sun, exercise, and real camaraderie with your colleagues? Check. No bullshit job manager to micro-manage, gaslight, and make my life hell? Check. Stress? I have never once felt stressed on a job site. I've gotten pissed off at dumbasses who've given me injuries, but it's not chronic, low-grade anxiety that permeates into my entire life like software engineering. Main problem is the healthcare isn't guaranteed. So if I fuck up my body, my career is over, and so is my access to medicine (and so is my ability to have a roof over my head!). Have fun with your 4 week wait-times (just for a consult) and "large jobs" only for any sort of tradesman! The problem is only going to get worse. No one with good foresight goes into the trades unless their family owns a business and is trying to hand it off to them -- or their family is in a union and are guaranteeing them a spot (don't do non-union). Ironically, the people usually going on about how "tough" certain jobs are have never done them for any extended period of time. It tends to give you a certain humility, that at the end of the day we're all just trying to stay alive, and no better than another. Shocking how shedding sweat with a recovered meth addict just out of jail will give you some empathy for your fellow man; while working in an alienating and cut-throat environment will turn you into a psychopath just to survive.

hindsightbias 3y ago

“Then I’m going to a cabin in the woods.” I get him about 3 months ouut there.

black_13 3y ago
[dead]

kstrauser 3y ago

I've done a couple of those, and there's no such thing as a cush job. My current career is usually done from a comfy desk setup, but it's just as hard as the physical work, in a different way.

ravenstine 3y ago
Programming can be very challenging mentally and very exhausting. Maybe it's cushier when working on one's own code, but spending day after day untangling messes in corporate codebases is absolutely draining. There are days I wish my work was physical because there'd be something to show for it. Not only is programming difficult, but a hard day's work doesn't clearly deliver value a lot of the time. For instance, I really couldn't tell you what I've built in the last year that brought value to customers. I know I've fixed things... but none of that means anything to anyone who didn't report or fix those issues. They shouldn't have existed in the first place.
- kstrauser 3y ago
  I understand you. My buddy’s a general contractor, and he said it feels good to drive down a street and say “I built that house, and put that roof on, and remodeled that one…” I wouldn’t swap places with him, but I do envy him that.

000ooo000 3y ago

"Shut up, you have it easy" is such an incredibly shallow perspective for someone who started by quoting Chomsky

TheOtherHobbes 3y ago

It's not a cush job. Corporate work can be mentally and emotionally crushing because there's no agency and no reward. You don't get to see the end product, you don't get to see users enjoying - or not - the end product, and even if that weren't true you still have almost no agency to improve the end product. Being a doctor in ER can be horrific, but at least you have some control over what's happening [1]. And sometimes people will be really, really grateful. [1] As long as you don't have to ask insurers to pre-approve anything.

strken 3y ago

I've got a collection of anecdotes from people who've done both kinds of work. Usually the take is more nuanced. My father did forestry for a while, and said it was less stressful than his later work as a teacher. A friend dropped out of uni to be a gardener. Some other friends worked as cops and thought the worst thing was the shift work. Meanwhile, construction and ER are said to be awful because of the long hours and awful management, factors they often share with corporate tech jobs.

coolThingsFirst 3y ago

Idealistic bullshit. Thats how it is in the US. It’s funny anti-college spokespeople all have Phds which gives them credibility.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

financltravsty 3y ago

I've done various manual labor (both skilled and unskilled). I would 100% go back into plumbing if the U.S. had a social safety net. Have a fulfilling job where you get to see the product of all your hard work at the end of the day? Check. Ability to turn your mind off after work and actually sleep well? Check. Fresh air, sun, exercise, and real camaraderie with your colleagues? Check. No bullshit job manager to micro-manage, gaslight, and make my life hell? Check. Stress? I have never once felt stressed on a job site. I've gotten pissed off at dumbasses who've given me injuries, but it's not chronic, low-grade anxiety that permeates into my entire life like software engineering. Main problem is the healthcare isn't guaranteed. So if I fuck up my body, my career is over, and so is my access to medicine (and so is my ability to have a roof over my head!). Have fun with your 4 week wait-times (just for a consult) and "large jobs" only for any sort of tradesman! The problem is only going to get worse. No one with good foresight goes into the trades unless their family owns a business and is trying to hand it off to them -- or their family is in a union and are guaranteeing them a spot (don't do non-union). Ironically, the people usually going on about how "tough" certain jobs are have never done them for any extended period of time. It tends to give you a certain humility, that at the end of the day we're all just trying to stay alive, and no better than another. Shocking how shedding sweat with a recovered meth addict just out of jail will give you some empathy for your fellow man; while working in an alienating and cut-throat environment will turn you into a psychopath just to survive.