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> don't pretend like "remember when you could say jokes" is anything but a dog whistle If it's a dog whistle that you can hear, then it's your whistle, summon

> don't pretend like "remember when you could say jokes" is anything but a dog whistle If it's a dog whistle that you can hear, then it's your whistle, summoning you, not the dogs

bradjohnson 3y ago
You got an argument, or just pedantry?
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > You got an argument, or just pedantry? Well, honestly, I wasn't responding to an argument anyway, so why would I present an argument?
  - bradjohnson 3y ago
    I argue: "I can't make jokes anymore" means "I want to make sexist and racist jokes" You argue: "Well technically a dog whistle is only audible to dogs so that means that you're a dog" ?? ok.
    - lelanthran 3y ago
      > I argue: "I can't make jokes anymore" means "I want to make sexist and racist jokes" But that's not, to me, an argument - it's a expression of opinion, and you're free to hold one. If you're saying that I misinterpreted it, maybe consider that it doesn't look like an argument - there's no evidence presented, there's no sequence of assertions, there's no antecedents, no consequence, no logical connectives ... In short, there's no logic presented, which is why it looks, to me, like an opinion, and not a completely unreasonable one. One that I felt was made in good faith and so I could engage with in good faith. > You argue: "Well technically a dog whistle is only audible to dogs so that means that you're a dog" Ever read the last psychiatrist? A favourite phrase of his is "If you're reading it, it's for you." which sort of applies here - the claims of dog whistles/nazis/whatever are not to alert the general audience, but a rallying call to others of the same ideology. It's a way to say "Come help me fight this argument because we believe the same things." It is a dog whistle, but it's your dog whistle.
      - bradjohnson 3y ago
        Dog whistle, social shibboleth, coded message, fill in the blanks yourself. It's just leading a reader to the start of a path and if they're aligned with your thinking, they will follow it one way. If they're not, or not critical of the patterns associated with this argument, they will be more charitable, or not do the exercise at all. Being able to identify the conclusion that is not being said does not make me the target of the message. It just makes me someone with too much time invested in the 'culture wars' of today.
DonHopkins 3y ago
No, it's Gamergate's dog whistle. Don't pretend it's not, or that you don't know.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > No, it's Gamergate's dog whistle. Don't pretend it's not, or that you don't know. My observation is that "Dog whistle" is the new "They're a Nazi", which itself is the new "Think of the children". They're all cognitive kill-switches and all mean the same thing - "I need to shutdown this conversation immediately". Maybe there's a legit reason for shutting down a conversation, maybe there isn't, but the legitimacy of the reason is irrelevant to the fact that they are intended to shut down the conversation. It's shaming language, designed to shame the other party into silence.

> don't pretend like "remember when you could say jokes" is anything but a dog whistle If it's a dog whistle that you can hear, then it's your whistle, summoning you, not the dogs

bradjohnson 3y ago

You got an argument, or just pedantry?

lelanthran 3y ago
> You got an argument, or just pedantry? Well, honestly, I wasn't responding to an argument anyway, so why would I present an argument?
- bradjohnson 3y ago
  I argue: "I can't make jokes anymore" means "I want to make sexist and racist jokes" You argue: "Well technically a dog whistle is only audible to dogs so that means that you're a dog" ?? ok.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > I argue: "I can't make jokes anymore" means "I want to make sexist and racist jokes" But that's not, to me, an argument - it's a expression of opinion, and you're free to hold one. If you're saying that I misinterpreted it, maybe consider that it doesn't look like an argument - there's no evidence presented, there's no sequence of assertions, there's no antecedents, no consequence, no logical connectives ... In short, there's no logic presented, which is why it looks, to me, like an opinion, and not a completely unreasonable one. One that I felt was made in good faith and so I could engage with in good faith. > You argue: "Well technically a dog whistle is only audible to dogs so that means that you're a dog" Ever read the last psychiatrist? A favourite phrase of his is "If you're reading it, it's for you." which sort of applies here - the claims of dog whistles/nazis/whatever are not to alert the general audience, but a rallying call to others of the same ideology. It's a way to say "Come help me fight this argument because we believe the same things." It is a dog whistle, but it's your dog whistle.
    - bradjohnson 3y ago
      Dog whistle, social shibboleth, coded message, fill in the blanks yourself. It's just leading a reader to the start of a path and if they're aligned with your thinking, they will follow it one way. If they're not, or not critical of the patterns associated with this argument, they will be more charitable, or not do the exercise at all. Being able to identify the conclusion that is not being said does not make me the target of the message. It just makes me someone with too much time invested in the 'culture wars' of today.

DonHopkins 3y ago

No, it's Gamergate's dog whistle. Don't pretend it's not, or that you don't know.

lelanthran 3y ago
> No, it's Gamergate's dog whistle. Don't pretend it's not, or that you don't know. My observation is that "Dog whistle" is the new "They're a Nazi", which itself is the new "Think of the children". They're all cognitive kill-switches and all mean the same thing - "I need to shutdown this conversation immediately". Maybe there's a legit reason for shutting down a conversation, maybe there isn't, but the legitimacy of the reason is irrelevant to the fact that they are intended to shut down the conversation. It's shaming language, designed to shame the other party into silence.