5 ms·

I wish I had a professor like you. When I asked why there was no compiler class, the answer I was given was: "compilers are a solved problem; there's no point i

I wish I had a professor like you. When I asked why there was no compiler class, the answer I was given was: "compilers are a solved problem; there's no point in teaching them anymore." Maybe it's just my school though.

zht 14y ago
Which school do you go to? Compilers seems like a pretty standard CS course at most schools.
- mjn 14y ago
  How the PLsy courses are split varies a lot. Where I went (Harvey Mudd), compilers was optional and not taken by most students, but there were two required Programming Languages courses, which involved parsing, ASTs, interpreters, tree transformations, and some other things you might otherwise find in a compilers course, but with less of a low-level flavor (no code-gen) and more of a PLs flavor.
  - hobin 14y ago
    The content of such a course also varies by university. I recently came across some university that did offer a compiler course, but it was all theory. Being a geek, I didn't really like that.
- simonbrown 14y ago
  Most UK universities don't teach compilers for CS.
acchow 14y ago
Pretty sure that's just your school. In the article, he mentions that the students don't get to compilers till 4th year. I find that a little strange. Some elementary understanding of how a high-level programming language translates to executable code is quite useful in other courses in a standard CS curriculum. At my school, in 2nd year we write a compiler for a tiny subset of C++ to MIPS assembly, and in 4th year you write a compiler for Java with a great deal of optimization.
- dovyski 14y ago
  They get some basic understanding about the compilation process at some classes through the first two years. When I attended my CS course, in the 3rd years I got some understanding about programming language structure and learned about compilers at the end. It's cool that you can learn about that earlier.
dovyski 14y ago
Thank you!
julioc 14y ago
We have a class on compilers at my university, but it's on the 4rd year. Creating a compiler/interpreter when you are just starting programming would be a big challenge. @dovyski: it's nice to see this coming from a brazilian university -- I'm from UFABC, São Paulo
- dovyski 14y ago
  It's a big challenge indeed. About the compiler course, it's the same at UFFS: 4th year. Thanks and nice to see a brazilian fellow around here :)
kba 14y ago
Sounds like a terrible place to be honest. With that mentality, in 60 years (when current compile designers are dead), nobody will know anything about compiler architecture. On the third year at my university, there's a course centered around writing a Java compiler.
- cncool 14y ago
  In 60 years, the best compiler writers will be computers. The singularity is near.
enjo 14y ago
That's jaw-dropping really... every student should have to experience the horrors of the dragon book. *edit: I say that firmly tongue in cheek. The Dragon book is one of the most important pieces of CS literature ever written. It's a fine book, the subject matter is just difficult:)
- haldean 14y ago
  I was taught compilers by one of the authors of the Dragon Book. It was one of the best courses I ever took.
- chimeracoder 14y ago
  Agreed. I'm taking a class right now with the dragon book (taught by Aho, actually - one of the authors of the book), and it's easily the best and most important CS class I've taken[1]. The main project for the class is to design a language and write a working compiler/interpreter for it - in all the years he's taught the class, apparently no group has failed to do this. The really tricky part is making a language that other students in your class will want to use, though, and that goes beyond the 'simple' issue of compiler structure! I half-wish that there would be a way to teach a compilers class as the second class in a CS track (ie, right after the intro class), but the problem is that it just requires too much familiarity with the details in order to impose upon most beginner/intermediate students, even if a few really interested ones could potentially handle it. It might be easier if you started off with Scheme and then went from there (a la SICP), but even then, you'd miss a lot of the more fundamental concepts assumed in the Dragon book that really just need a lot of time to be digested. [1] Alright, there's probably a three-way tie for 1st, but it still counts. My education would not have been complete without it; I highly recommend the Dragon book to anybody who has the time and interest.
  - chromatic 14y ago
    I interviewed Professor Aho a few years back; I'm a little jealous I was never fortunate enough to take that class. It's likely to be one of the most practical classes in all of computer science anywhere. (I won't give away the punchline for the class. I don't know how far along you are on the project.)
ayuvar 14y ago
My high school guidance counsellor tried to dissuade me from taking a computer science undergraduate degree, stating that all the programs that are useful had already been written. I can only imagine what he told the kids who wanted to become civil engineers.
blcArmadillo 14y ago
Whoaa that's pretty bad. I'm currently taking a computer architecture class in which we have to design and implement a working superscalar out of order processor in HDL. Even in that class, which is strictly focused on computer architecture, our professor stresses how important compilers are. Sure compilers have become pretty good at optimizing code but there is so much room for improvement especially as we increasingly move to multicore systems. Your professor really must be living under a rock...

zht 14y ago

Which school do you go to? Compilers seems like a pretty standard CS course at most schools.

mjn 14y ago
How the PLsy courses are split varies a lot. Where I went (Harvey Mudd), compilers was optional and not taken by most students, but there were two required Programming Languages courses, which involved parsing, ASTs, interpreters, tree transformations, and some other things you might otherwise find in a compilers course, but with less of a low-level flavor (no code-gen) and more of a PLs flavor.
- hobin 14y ago
  The content of such a course also varies by university. I recently came across some university that did offer a compiler course, but it was all theory. Being a geek, I didn't really like that.
simonbrown 14y ago
Most UK universities don't teach compilers for CS.

acchow 14y ago

Pretty sure that's just your school. In the article, he mentions that the students don't get to compilers till 4th year. I find that a little strange. Some elementary understanding of how a high-level programming language translates to executable code is quite useful in other courses in a standard CS curriculum. At my school, in 2nd year we write a compiler for a tiny subset of C++ to MIPS assembly, and in 4th year you write a compiler for Java with a great deal of optimization.

dovyski 14y ago
They get some basic understanding about the compilation process at some classes through the first two years. When I attended my CS course, in the 3rd years I got some understanding about programming language structure and learned about compilers at the end. It's cool that you can learn about that earlier.

dovyski 14y ago

Thank you!

julioc 14y ago

We have a class on compilers at my university, but it's on the 4rd year. Creating a compiler/interpreter when you are just starting programming would be a big challenge. @dovyski: it's nice to see this coming from a brazilian university -- I'm from UFABC, São Paulo

dovyski 14y ago
It's a big challenge indeed. About the compiler course, it's the same at UFFS: 4th year. Thanks and nice to see a brazilian fellow around here :)

kba 14y ago

Sounds like a terrible place to be honest. With that mentality, in 60 years (when current compile designers are dead), nobody will know anything about compiler architecture. On the third year at my university, there's a course centered around writing a Java compiler.

cncool 14y ago
In 60 years, the best compiler writers will be computers. The singularity is near.

enjo 14y ago

That's jaw-dropping really... every student should have to experience the horrors of the dragon book. *edit: I say that firmly tongue in cheek. The Dragon book is one of the most important pieces of CS literature ever written. It's a fine book, the subject matter is just difficult:)

haldean 14y ago
I was taught compilers by one of the authors of the Dragon Book. It was one of the best courses I ever took.
chimeracoder 14y ago
Agreed. I'm taking a class right now with the dragon book (taught by Aho, actually - one of the authors of the book), and it's easily the best and most important CS class I've taken[1]. The main project for the class is to design a language and write a working compiler/interpreter for it - in all the years he's taught the class, apparently no group has failed to do this. The really tricky part is making a language that other students in your class will want to use, though, and that goes beyond the 'simple' issue of compiler structure! I half-wish that there would be a way to teach a compilers class as the second class in a CS track (ie, right after the intro class), but the problem is that it just requires too much familiarity with the details in order to impose upon most beginner/intermediate students, even if a few really interested ones could potentially handle it. It might be easier if you started off with Scheme and then went from there (a la SICP), but even then, you'd miss a lot of the more fundamental concepts assumed in the Dragon book that really just need a lot of time to be digested. [1] Alright, there's probably a three-way tie for 1st, but it still counts. My education would not have been complete without it; I highly recommend the Dragon book to anybody who has the time and interest.
- chromatic 14y ago
  I interviewed Professor Aho a few years back; I'm a little jealous I was never fortunate enough to take that class. It's likely to be one of the most practical classes in all of computer science anywhere. (I won't give away the punchline for the class. I don't know how far along you are on the project.)

ayuvar 14y ago

My high school guidance counsellor tried to dissuade me from taking a computer science undergraduate degree, stating that all the programs that are useful had already been written. I can only imagine what he told the kids who wanted to become civil engineers.

blcArmadillo 14y ago

Whoaa that's pretty bad. I'm currently taking a computer architecture class in which we have to design and implement a working superscalar out of order processor in HDL. Even in that class, which is strictly focused on computer architecture, our professor stresses how important compilers are. Sure compilers have become pretty good at optimizing code but there is so much room for improvement especially as we increasingly move to multicore systems. Your professor really must be living under a rock...