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I really hate when people pretend that you can just go sell your stuff on your website and that would settle the debate. Unless you're already extremely popular

I really hate when people pretend that you can just go sell your stuff on your website and that would settle the debate. Unless you're already extremely popular, not being present on streaming services is almost akin to not existing at all. Even though streaming services aren't a monopoly, as a whole they have a huge percentage of the market and what they pay out famously is very little and (at least in the case of Spotify) skewed towards the big artists. Yes, fair is complicated, but the decision of what's fair and what isn't is something a society can take and it seems that Uruguay did take that decision. Good for them, I guess. Is minimum wage also twisting the arm of business? How much would be fair for minimum wage?

max_ 3y ago
Yes. I a way it is. Businesses that can't afford to pay a minimum wage can't operate. Imagine a record label/streaming service had to pay every artist or actor a minimum wage weather or not thier work generated money more than the business invested. I doubt it would be sustainable. Also, should businessmen making less than minimum wage be compensated by the government to make ends meet? I think trying to improve the economic situation of the poor by twisting the arms of businesses is bad. I think the issue of poverty is a serious one and should be addressed by strengthening social safety nets & providing a form of Universal Basic Income.
- scarface_74 3y ago
  Well, the market has spoken. You can no more blame anyone for artist not being able to make money than someone who majored in Ancient Chinese Art History for finding a job.
- leononame 3y ago
  > Imagine a record label/streaming service had to pay every artist or actor a minimum wage weather or not thier work generated money more than the business invested. I doubt it would be sustainable. If it's not sustainable without exploiting the artists, then it shouldn't exist in my opinion. Either prices have to rise or something else has to happen to make things more "fair" (again, I agree that fair is a complicated term and it's hard to put a value on it). Artists aren't employed by streaming services, so the service shouldn't pay minimum wage, but setting a minimum payout or some other measure is something that can be argued for. > Also, should businessmen making less than minimum wage be compensated by the government to make ends meet? If the business owner makes less than minimum wage, it's ok by me. Their business, they have to find a way to make it profitable. But it shouldn't be made more profitable by exploiting the people that sustain it. The government shouldn't compensate the business imo. > think the issue of poverty is a serious one and should be addressed by strengthening social safety nets & providing a form of Universal Basic Income. You are arguing against a government giving money to business owners that struggle to make ends meet, but giving UBI without minimum wage does exactly that. You subsidize businesses that don't pay a living wage that otherwise would go bankrupt. I think things would be different if the power balance wasn't so extremely off between artists and streaming services (or employees and employers in the minimum wage example). But since power is extremely imbalanced, I argue protections should be in place.
  - max_ 3y ago
    >You are arguing against a government giving money to business owners that struggle to make ends meet, but giving UBI without minimum wage does exactly that. You subsidize businesses that don't pay a living wage that otherwise would go bankrupt. Yes exactly. What protections and for whom? Protecting the business or protecting the customers?
scarface_74 3y ago
There are plenty of ways of marketing yourself outside of the streaming services - Facebook, ads, playing at live venues, giving out cards with QR codes that link to your website etc. Rappers were famous guerrilla marketers back in the day.

max_ 3y ago

Yes. I a way it is. Businesses that can't afford to pay a minimum wage can't operate. Imagine a record label/streaming service had to pay every artist or actor a minimum wage weather or not thier work generated money more than the business invested. I doubt it would be sustainable. Also, should businessmen making less than minimum wage be compensated by the government to make ends meet? I think trying to improve the economic situation of the poor by twisting the arms of businesses is bad. I think the issue of poverty is a serious one and should be addressed by strengthening social safety nets & providing a form of Universal Basic Income.

scarface_74 3y ago
Well, the market has spoken. You can no more blame anyone for artist not being able to make money than someone who majored in Ancient Chinese Art History for finding a job.
leononame 3y ago
> Imagine a record label/streaming service had to pay every artist or actor a minimum wage weather or not thier work generated money more than the business invested. I doubt it would be sustainable. If it's not sustainable without exploiting the artists, then it shouldn't exist in my opinion. Either prices have to rise or something else has to happen to make things more "fair" (again, I agree that fair is a complicated term and it's hard to put a value on it). Artists aren't employed by streaming services, so the service shouldn't pay minimum wage, but setting a minimum payout or some other measure is something that can be argued for. > Also, should businessmen making less than minimum wage be compensated by the government to make ends meet? If the business owner makes less than minimum wage, it's ok by me. Their business, they have to find a way to make it profitable. But it shouldn't be made more profitable by exploiting the people that sustain it. The government shouldn't compensate the business imo. > think the issue of poverty is a serious one and should be addressed by strengthening social safety nets & providing a form of Universal Basic Income. You are arguing against a government giving money to business owners that struggle to make ends meet, but giving UBI without minimum wage does exactly that. You subsidize businesses that don't pay a living wage that otherwise would go bankrupt. I think things would be different if the power balance wasn't so extremely off between artists and streaming services (or employees and employers in the minimum wage example). But since power is extremely imbalanced, I argue protections should be in place.
- max_ 3y ago
  >You are arguing against a government giving money to business owners that struggle to make ends meet, but giving UBI without minimum wage does exactly that. You subsidize businesses that don't pay a living wage that otherwise would go bankrupt. Yes exactly. What protections and for whom? Protecting the business or protecting the customers?

scarface_74 3y ago

There are plenty of ways of marketing yourself outside of the streaming services - Facebook, ads, playing at live venues, giving out cards with QR codes that link to your website etc. Rappers were famous guerrilla marketers back in the day.