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Did he expand civil rights out of his own interest and volition or because there was pressure from the Civil Rights Movement? Wasn’t he a racist himself? As fo

Did he expand civil rights out of his own interest and volition or because there was pressure from the Civil Rights Movement? Wasn’t he a racist himself? As for the Vietnam War: I guess it was easier for the US state to let the domestic population have civil rights compared to ending the Vietnam War and risking the “contagion” spreading. It’s easier to kill non-nationals on the other side of the world compared to continuing to violently crack down on domestic protests for civil rights. (Kennedy didn’t have a nice record in Vietnam either, even though he is apparently the anti-deep state crusader if you listen to enough rock songs or whatever...) I don’t know if "weird" is the right conclusion when you can factor in outside influences.

tlb 3y ago
We should praise leaders for doing what the people want instead of what they might want themselves.
- avgcorrection 3y ago
  Okay. I’d rather give the credit to the nameless activists that forced the issue to the table and made segregation politically untenable. But I’m used to "leaders" getting credit for good things and the populace the stick for bad things.[1] I'm doubtful that these leaders do these things because they are "listening" rather than because they are forced to. Or what, politicians are cynical power brokers (a common view, and correct) except on this issue? The leaders behind the State violently crack down on protests until they have a sudden epiphany and realize that demonstrating against segregation was good. [1] Civil Rights was to Johnson’s credit, apparently, while the Trump Presidency was due to “stupid voters”
  - Jensson 3y ago
    > [1] Civil Rights was to Johnson’s credit, apparently, while the Trump Presidency was due to “stupid voters” People say Trump did X, Trump did Y, people don't say Trumps voters did X or Y. So I don't think so, the leaders gets most of the credit and the blame in the publics eye. In some cases the people on the ground gets credit and blame, but in most cases the leaders gets most of it.
Arainach 3y ago
Johnson grew up poor and spent time teaching Mexican immigrant schoolchildren. He was from the South and far from flawless, but there are many anecdotes from throughout his life that showed that civil rights was a cause dear to him.
cafard 3y ago
Was LBJ a racist himself? I expect so. Was he deeply committed to civil rights? Yes, without question. Johnson regarded the war in Vietnam as something he had inherited from Kennedy. He regarded it as politically impossible to cut losses and pull out--the Republican Party beat on the Democrats for years over China, a more obviously lost cause. Kennedy was younger, richer, and better looking. Then and since many Americans (and not only Americans) have confused their fantasies about him with history.
woooooo 3y ago
The Caro biography claims that LBJ basically rescued the civil rights bills with his ability to get things through the senate. Kennedy had been on a path to failure because he didn't pass a budget first.

tlb 3y ago

We should praise leaders for doing what the people want instead of what they might want themselves.

avgcorrection 3y ago
Okay. I’d rather give the credit to the nameless activists that forced the issue to the table and made segregation politically untenable. But I’m used to "leaders" getting credit for good things and the populace the stick for bad things.[1] I'm doubtful that these leaders do these things because they are "listening" rather than because they are forced to. Or what, politicians are cynical power brokers (a common view, and correct) except on this issue? The leaders behind the State violently crack down on protests until they have a sudden epiphany and realize that demonstrating against segregation was good. [1] Civil Rights was to Johnson’s credit, apparently, while the Trump Presidency was due to “stupid voters”
- Jensson 3y ago
  > [1] Civil Rights was to Johnson’s credit, apparently, while the Trump Presidency was due to “stupid voters” People say Trump did X, Trump did Y, people don't say Trumps voters did X or Y. So I don't think so, the leaders gets most of the credit and the blame in the publics eye. In some cases the people on the ground gets credit and blame, but in most cases the leaders gets most of it.

Arainach 3y ago

Johnson grew up poor and spent time teaching Mexican immigrant schoolchildren. He was from the South and far from flawless, but there are many anecdotes from throughout his life that showed that civil rights was a cause dear to him.

cafard 3y ago

Was LBJ a racist himself? I expect so. Was he deeply committed to civil rights? Yes, without question. Johnson regarded the war in Vietnam as something he had inherited from Kennedy. He regarded it as politically impossible to cut losses and pull out--the Republican Party beat on the Democrats for years over China, a more obviously lost cause. Kennedy was younger, richer, and better looking. Then and since many Americans (and not only Americans) have confused their fantasies about him with history.

woooooo 3y ago

The Caro biography claims that LBJ basically rescued the civil rights bills with his ability to get things through the senate. Kennedy had been on a path to failure because he didn't pass a budget first.