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Does it cover the prison-like windowless monstrosity of a dorm he designed for UCSB? https://www.dezeen.com/2021/11/02/architect-resigns-grotesque-design-unive

Does it cover the prison-like windowless monstrosity of a dorm he designed for UCSB? https://www.dezeen.com/2021/11/02/architect-resigns-grotesque-design-university-california-munger-hall/ https://www.dezeen.com/2021/11/02/architect-resigns-grotesqu...

tim333 3y ago
The previous one that got built seems popular. 8.3/10 in reviews here https://www.veryapt.com/ApartmentReview-a7222-munger-graduate-residences-ann-arbor https://www.veryapt.com/ApartmentReview-a7222-munger-graduat...
orzig 3y ago
I don't have a horse in the race, but maybe before jumping to conclusions people should read the reactions of students themselves? They're very easy to find: https://www.independent.com/2022/07/27/mixed-reviews-ucsb-munger-hall-dormzilla-santa-barbara/ https://www.independent.com/2022/07/27/mixed-reviews-ucsb-mu... It's no puff piece, and students aren't uniformly positive, but it's a reminder that there are many trade-offs in life, and some are pretty open to it
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- spondylosaurus 3y ago
  UCSB is notoriously sparse on housing, so it sounds like a lot of students do prefer the privacy and quiet of Munger's dorm to the more fratty atmosphere of IV. But if options were better...
- foobarqux 3y ago
  The question isn't whether windowless dorms are good or bad, it's whether the students who live in dorms should decide or should it be dictated by the richest people in the world. The common retort is that it's the rich people's money so that they should be able to impose whatever living conditions they want on the deprived.
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Is Charlie a licensed architect? If not, the final decisions still come down to an architect.
  - prepend 3y ago
    I suppose students are welcome to use their own money to buy buildings. There is a university governance board that can design whatever they want. In this case, Munger proposed an efficient donation (in his mind) to help the most students possible with his donation and the university accepted. Since only billionaires are likely to donate buildings, I think it’s going to be common to have donors influence the design.
    - foobarqux 3y ago
      Yes by this logic if a poor person doesn't have food it's okay for a billionaire to make him dance a jig for them to in order to eat. If a school doesn't have funds for buildings a billionaire should be able to mandate that they teach Charlie-Munger thought for one hour a day in order to stay open.
      - prepend 3y ago
        I don’t think this building is the equivalent of either of those things. More like it’s the equivalent of a billionaire is a pescatarian and they only offer to provide sushi meals to people and refuse to buy hamburgers.
        foobarqux 3y ago
        I'm not drawing an equivalence, I'm making a comparison: Why should those be forbidden and the others allowed?
        prepend 3y ago
        Because dancing a jig is demeaning while living in a comfortable, safe apartment that doesn’t have a window seems fine to me. I think that forcing unreasonable actions as a condition of charity is bad.
- mpalmer 3y ago
  Every student quote in that piece is either overt criticism, or qualified praise (“I personally would not want to live there,” he said. “I would feel trapped”). It does have positive quotes from a number of people on the UCSB payroll who would never live there.
  - IncreasePosts 3y ago
    Yes, no one praises the lack of windows, because it'll be weird to be thankful for something normal that is missing. But the lack of windows aren't just a middle finger to the students, their absence allows for greater freedom in design of the building. So you have students praising the relatively large private rooms. Which would not be possible without the lack of windows.
    - mpalmer 3y ago
      No one said there was praise about the lack of windows. I said there are no positive comments from students quoted in that piece other than the guy who would feel trapped living there.
      - IncreasePosts 3y ago
        > Many students expressed enthusiasm over the privacy the single rooms would offer, Reyes said, as well as a promise from the university that Munger Hall housing costs would remain 20-30 percent below the market rate of nearby Isla Vista. > . “On the one hand, it’s really nice,” said McCarthy, who lived in the “funky” Santa Rosa Residence Hall his freshman year. “It’s indisputable. There are all sorts of features — air conditioning, game rooms, balconies, flat-screen TVs in every suite — that would make it the nicest dorm on campus.” He also appreciated the project’s bike-friendly infrastructure
        mpalmer 3y ago
        Yes...that is the first half of the quote from the guy who said he would feel trapped if he lived there.
oh_sigh 3y ago
Every time Munger is mentioned here, this comes up. If it's so obvious to every random joe with exactly zero experience designing buildings, why did Charlie ignore it? Have you actually considered his design, or is this just a kneejerk reaction?
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- foobarqux 3y ago
  Should students who live in them decide or should a billionaire make them live where he wants them to?
  - oh_sigh 3y ago
    Has any group of students ever decided how to design their on campus housing, or has that 100% of the time fell to a licensed architect?
    - foobarqux 3y ago
      I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Normally students would be able to say that they don't want windowless dorms. In this case Munger said that if they didn't build windowless dorms they wouldn't get dorms at all. What does this have to do with architects?
      - IncreasePosts 3y ago
        Students generally don't have much say over the design of their dorms. And 80% of students who toured a demo space were positive or neutral on it. No, Munger didn't say they would get no dorms at all if they didn't build it. He said he would not give them $200M if they didn't follow his plans. I'm not aware of his ability to unilaterally prevent the building of dorms on any campus. What this has to do with architects is that architects don't sign off on unlivable spaces.

tim333 3y ago

The previous one that got built seems popular. 8.3/10 in reviews here https://www.veryapt.com/ApartmentReview-a7222-munger-graduate-residences-ann-arbor https://www.veryapt.com/ApartmentReview-a7222-munger-graduat...

orzig 3y ago

I don't have a horse in the race, but maybe before jumping to conclusions people should read the reactions of students themselves? They're very easy to find: https://www.independent.com/2022/07/27/mixed-reviews-ucsb-munger-hall-dormzilla-santa-barbara/ https://www.independent.com/2022/07/27/mixed-reviews-ucsb-mu... It's no puff piece, and students aren't uniformly positive, but it's a reminder that there are many trade-offs in life, and some are pretty open to it

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
spondylosaurus 3y ago
UCSB is notoriously sparse on housing, so it sounds like a lot of students do prefer the privacy and quiet of Munger's dorm to the more fratty atmosphere of IV. But if options were better...
foobarqux 3y ago
The question isn't whether windowless dorms are good or bad, it's whether the students who live in dorms should decide or should it be dictated by the richest people in the world. The common retort is that it's the rich people's money so that they should be able to impose whatever living conditions they want on the deprived.
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Is Charlie a licensed architect? If not, the final decisions still come down to an architect.
- prepend 3y ago
  I suppose students are welcome to use their own money to buy buildings. There is a university governance board that can design whatever they want. In this case, Munger proposed an efficient donation (in his mind) to help the most students possible with his donation and the university accepted. Since only billionaires are likely to donate buildings, I think it’s going to be common to have donors influence the design.
  - foobarqux 3y ago
    Yes by this logic if a poor person doesn't have food it's okay for a billionaire to make him dance a jig for them to in order to eat. If a school doesn't have funds for buildings a billionaire should be able to mandate that they teach Charlie-Munger thought for one hour a day in order to stay open.
    - prepend 3y ago
      I don’t think this building is the equivalent of either of those things. More like it’s the equivalent of a billionaire is a pescatarian and they only offer to provide sushi meals to people and refuse to buy hamburgers.
      - foobarqux 3y ago
        I'm not drawing an equivalence, I'm making a comparison: Why should those be forbidden and the others allowed?
        prepend 3y ago
        Because dancing a jig is demeaning while living in a comfortable, safe apartment that doesn’t have a window seems fine to me. I think that forcing unreasonable actions as a condition of charity is bad.
mpalmer 3y ago
Every student quote in that piece is either overt criticism, or qualified praise (“I personally would not want to live there,” he said. “I would feel trapped”). It does have positive quotes from a number of people on the UCSB payroll who would never live there.
- IncreasePosts 3y ago
  Yes, no one praises the lack of windows, because it'll be weird to be thankful for something normal that is missing. But the lack of windows aren't just a middle finger to the students, their absence allows for greater freedom in design of the building. So you have students praising the relatively large private rooms. Which would not be possible without the lack of windows.
  - mpalmer 3y ago
    No one said there was praise about the lack of windows. I said there are no positive comments from students quoted in that piece other than the guy who would feel trapped living there.
    - IncreasePosts 3y ago
      > Many students expressed enthusiasm over the privacy the single rooms would offer, Reyes said, as well as a promise from the university that Munger Hall housing costs would remain 20-30 percent below the market rate of nearby Isla Vista. > . “On the one hand, it’s really nice,” said McCarthy, who lived in the “funky” Santa Rosa Residence Hall his freshman year. “It’s indisputable. There are all sorts of features — air conditioning, game rooms, balconies, flat-screen TVs in every suite — that would make it the nicest dorm on campus.” He also appreciated the project’s bike-friendly infrastructure
      - mpalmer 3y ago
        Yes...that is the first half of the quote from the guy who said he would feel trapped if he lived there.

oh_sigh 3y ago

Every time Munger is mentioned here, this comes up. If it's so obvious to every random joe with exactly zero experience designing buildings, why did Charlie ignore it? Have you actually considered his design, or is this just a kneejerk reaction?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
foobarqux 3y ago
Should students who live in them decide or should a billionaire make them live where he wants them to?
- oh_sigh 3y ago
  Has any group of students ever decided how to design their on campus housing, or has that 100% of the time fell to a licensed architect?
  - foobarqux 3y ago
    I have no idea what point you are trying to make. Normally students would be able to say that they don't want windowless dorms. In this case Munger said that if they didn't build windowless dorms they wouldn't get dorms at all. What does this have to do with architects?
    - IncreasePosts 3y ago
      Students generally don't have much say over the design of their dorms. And 80% of students who toured a demo space were positive or neutral on it. No, Munger didn't say they would get no dorms at all if they didn't build it. He said he would not give them $200M if they didn't follow his plans. I'm not aware of his ability to unilaterally prevent the building of dorms on any campus. What this has to do with architects is that architects don't sign off on unlivable spaces.