6 ms·

Ford is killing the Explorer hybrid because cops are buying all of them

35 points by ourmandave 3y ago

h2odragon 3y ago
Powering all the accessories a police vehicle needs is a real problem. If they've left it even slightly hackable the aftermarket will make them the star of the show.
- toomuchtodo 3y ago
  There are alternatives readily available. https://electrek.co/2023/02/06/police-chief-explains-tesla-model-y-patrol-car-will-save/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/06/police-chief-explains-tesla-m... https://electrek.co/2023/05/09/tesla-model-y-police-dept-go-all-electric/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/09/tesla-model-y-police-dept-go-... https://www.fremontpolice.gov/community/hybrid-and-electric-patrol-vehicles https://www.fremontpolice.gov/community/hybrid-and-electric-... https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1490/a-close-look-at-tesla-s-model-y-as-a-police-cruiser https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1490/a-close-look-at-tesla... https://www.government-fleet.com/10182136/indiana-pd-upfits-tesla-model-y-for-k-9 https://www.government-fleet.com/10182136/indiana-pd-upfits-... Tangentially, this class of vehicle is best suited for replacement by EVs; you want to direct unit flow to the highest utilization use cases to destroy fossil fuel demand and consumption. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gasoline-superusers-only-10-of-us-drivers-burn-almost-a-third-of-the-gas/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gasoline-superusers-only-... ("Gasoline superusers: Only 10% of US drivers burn almost a third of the gas") https://coltura.org/gasoline-superusers-2-report/ https://coltura.org/gasoline-superusers-2-report/ https://ibb.co/Vq928g5 https://ibb.co/Vq928g5
  - vlovich123 3y ago
    > Gasoline superusers: Only 10% of US drivers burn almost a third of the gas For what it’s worth that will always be true and is just an observation of the Pareto principle. For example, once you get rid of that 10% you’ll still likely have roughly the same ratio remain true even though in absolute terms there’s been a reduction.
    - toomuchtodo 3y ago
      Indeed, but you don't want to be putting EVs in the garage for folks who drive a few thousand miles a year (although those sales do help spinning up the manufacturing flywheel). You want to target the highest petroleum consumers and work your way down the long tail, at least until we reach a point where petroleum demand drops below a floor where the supply chain begins to collapse.
  - KennyBlanken 3y ago
    "There are lots of alternatives!" all their links are about one manufacturer You're not wrong about EVs and hybrids being ideal for fleets like police, but acting like the market is flush with choices for police departments is absurd. Not to mention, Teslas are an idiotic choice for a group of users who tend to need bodywork pretty often, given how a lot of minor collisions total Teslas, or the body shops are booked out months or longer.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
y-curious 3y ago
So if I understand this correctly, Ford is shutting down civilian versions of these hybrid cars because so many cops want them. This is really confusing to me, as the American brands have been calling electric/hybrid vehicles a failure for the last quarter. How does this add up?
- PaywallBuster 3y ago
  yeah the article is not 100% clear but Ford have multiple models (or variations) the police interceptor model is the most popular, the others not so much so they will shut down the other (civilian) models and focus on the police one alone
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- uoaei 3y ago
  It's a mistake to believe PR messaging at its word.
- stetrain 3y ago
  For one, despite the headlines to the contrary EV sales have been growing. It's just that EV inventory has been growing as well as production scales up. We have flipped from COVID scarcity to a world where dealers and automakers need to put the legwork in to sell EVs like they do other vehicles. For another, I think the TCO benefits of EVs will be noticed first by organizations that make these kinds of purchasing decisions based on spreadsheet budgeting. Doing the math on a more expensive EV vs fuel savings over a long term purchase is a bit harder for a consumer. The more expensive vehicle might make it hard to get financing, or cost you more interest. If you don't put a ton of miles on your vehicle, the savings may not add up as quickly. For a fleet vehicle purchaser and operator, the miles, fuel costs, and potential savings are all fairly easy to calculate. A police department can run the math on gas and oil changes and figure out pretty quickly whether a bit more spent for an EV or PHEV will pay itself back.
  - 3y ago
p1mrx 3y ago
> the lithium battery allows officers to power the accessories without having the engine run as much, which reduces fuel consumption further and improves wear and maintenance costs. IMHO, all gas-powered SUVs should be hybrids, especially since the EPA mandates stopping the engine while stationary. A hybrid would significantly reduce the pedal-to-wheels latency and keep the A/C running at stoplights.
- pmontra 3y ago
  > the EPA is mandating that the engine stop while the vehicle is stationary How could they use AC and heating with traditional cars, when they had to stay stationary for a long time in summer or winter?
  - kjkjadksj 3y ago
    You get like 30 seconds of cold air before the compressor being off is evident. A lot of people turn this “feature” off if they can.
  - p1mrx 3y ago
    I'm not sure exactly what the rule says. I've heard stories of people buying a modern SUV, and needing to push a button on every trip, to disable the start/stop feature. I've also heard of people making a little motorized arm that pushes the button automatically. Edit: It's not strictly mandatory. See page 3 of https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2014-title40-vol19/pdf/CFR-2014-title40-vol19-sec86-1869-12.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2014-title40-vol19/p...
    - Kon-Peki 3y ago
      > It's not strictly mandatory. My understanding is that if the automaker uses it during the EPA fuel economy test, it must be enabled every time the car starts. If not, the automaker can choose to have it remember your preferences.
  - RandallBrown 3y ago
    I'm only assuming that both of my brand new cars are EPA compliant (they may not be) but they'll just turn back on if it's been long enough to get too cold or warm.
adolph 3y ago
I wonder if and what Ford offers for 450v traction battery to 12v buck conversion.
dinkblam 3y ago
> Some of those that work forces are the same that burn… that made my day.
Axsuul 3y ago
Title sucks – more like taken off the market.
jdblair 3y ago
Some of those that work forces are the same that burn less fuel with hybrid technology Kudos for the slightly awkward Rage Against the Machine reference.
- kbenson 3y ago
  I've tried to puzzle out what that verse means for years and had a few theories, and just finally got it and I wasn't interpreting "forces" right at all.
  - johng 3y ago
    Ditto. I finally get the song verse now as well. Kudos.
  - jdblair 3y ago
    For years I thought the line was "those who were enforcers were the same...". Almost the same meaning, but it has an extra syllable.
Animats 3y ago
That makes sense. Cops spend much time sitting in their cars, parked, with the vehicle systems powered up.
HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago
[flagged]
pixl97 3y ago
There has been a lot of interest in the Edison hybrid diesel line for this feature in custom work trucks. Being able to run pumps/electronics without having the main engine running allows for a huge amount of fuel savings. In addition it drops the amount of noise and pollution generated, especially in sensitive areas.
indigo0086 3y ago
Cringey AF rage against the machine callback
gambiting 3y ago
>>which offers up to an EPA-estimated 24 mpg combined fuel economy I just don't understand why these vehicles aren't diesels, I get that Americans have strong aversion to diesel but modern big SUVs diesels can 50mpg all day long without even trying. Surely the fuel savings are worth it alone. Why isn't there demand from the market for it?

35 points by ourmandave 3y ago

Powering all the accessories a police vehicle needs is a real problem. If they've left it even slightly hackable the aftermarket will make them the star of the show.

toomuchtodo 3y ago
There are alternatives readily available. https://electrek.co/2023/02/06/police-chief-explains-tesla-model-y-patrol-car-will-save/ https://electrek.co/2023/02/06/police-chief-explains-tesla-m... https://electrek.co/2023/05/09/tesla-model-y-police-dept-go-all-electric/ https://electrek.co/2023/05/09/tesla-model-y-police-dept-go-... https://www.fremontpolice.gov/community/hybrid-and-electric-patrol-vehicles https://www.fremontpolice.gov/community/hybrid-and-electric-... https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1490/a-close-look-at-tesla-s-model-y-as-a-police-cruiser https://www.notateslaapp.com/news/1490/a-close-look-at-tesla... https://www.government-fleet.com/10182136/indiana-pd-upfits-tesla-model-y-for-k-9 https://www.government-fleet.com/10182136/indiana-pd-upfits-... Tangentially, this class of vehicle is best suited for replacement by EVs; you want to direct unit flow to the highest utilization use cases to destroy fossil fuel demand and consumption. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gasoline-superusers-only-10-of-us-drivers-burn-almost-a-third-of-the-gas/ https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/gasoline-superusers-only-... ("Gasoline superusers: Only 10% of US drivers burn almost a third of the gas") https://coltura.org/gasoline-superusers-2-report/ https://coltura.org/gasoline-superusers-2-report/ https://ibb.co/Vq928g5 https://ibb.co/Vq928g5
- vlovich123 3y ago
  > Gasoline superusers: Only 10% of US drivers burn almost a third of the gas For what it’s worth that will always be true and is just an observation of the Pareto principle. For example, once you get rid of that 10% you’ll still likely have roughly the same ratio remain true even though in absolute terms there’s been a reduction.
  - toomuchtodo 3y ago
    Indeed, but you don't want to be putting EVs in the garage for folks who drive a few thousand miles a year (although those sales do help spinning up the manufacturing flywheel). You want to target the highest petroleum consumers and work your way down the long tail, at least until we reach a point where petroleum demand drops below a floor where the supply chain begins to collapse.
- KennyBlanken 3y ago
  "There are lots of alternatives!" all their links are about one manufacturer You're not wrong about EVs and hybrids being ideal for fleets like police, but acting like the market is flush with choices for police departments is absurd. Not to mention, Teslas are an idiotic choice for a group of users who tend to need bodywork pretty often, given how a lot of minor collisions total Teslas, or the body shops are booked out months or longer.

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

y-curious 3y ago

So if I understand this correctly, Ford is shutting down civilian versions of these hybrid cars because so many cops want them. This is really confusing to me, as the American brands have been calling electric/hybrid vehicles a failure for the last quarter. How does this add up?

PaywallBuster 3y ago
yeah the article is not 100% clear but Ford have multiple models (or variations) the police interceptor model is the most popular, the others not so much so they will shut down the other (civilian) models and focus on the police one alone
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
uoaei 3y ago
It's a mistake to believe PR messaging at its word.
stetrain 3y ago
For one, despite the headlines to the contrary EV sales have been growing. It's just that EV inventory has been growing as well as production scales up. We have flipped from COVID scarcity to a world where dealers and automakers need to put the legwork in to sell EVs like they do other vehicles. For another, I think the TCO benefits of EVs will be noticed first by organizations that make these kinds of purchasing decisions based on spreadsheet budgeting. Doing the math on a more expensive EV vs fuel savings over a long term purchase is a bit harder for a consumer. The more expensive vehicle might make it hard to get financing, or cost you more interest. If you don't put a ton of miles on your vehicle, the savings may not add up as quickly. For a fleet vehicle purchaser and operator, the miles, fuel costs, and potential savings are all fairly easy to calculate. A police department can run the math on gas and oil changes and figure out pretty quickly whether a bit more spent for an EV or PHEV will pay itself back.
- 3y ago

p1mrx 3y ago

> the lithium battery allows officers to power the accessories without having the engine run as much, which reduces fuel consumption further and improves wear and maintenance costs. IMHO, all gas-powered SUVs should be hybrids, especially since the EPA mandates stopping the engine while stationary. A hybrid would significantly reduce the pedal-to-wheels latency and keep the A/C running at stoplights.

pmontra 3y ago
> the EPA is mandating that the engine stop while the vehicle is stationary How could they use AC and heating with traditional cars, when they had to stay stationary for a long time in summer or winter?
- kjkjadksj 3y ago
  You get like 30 seconds of cold air before the compressor being off is evident. A lot of people turn this “feature” off if they can.
- p1mrx 3y ago
  I'm not sure exactly what the rule says. I've heard stories of people buying a modern SUV, and needing to push a button on every trip, to disable the start/stop feature. I've also heard of people making a little motorized arm that pushes the button automatically. Edit: It's not strictly mandatory. See page 3 of https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2014-title40-vol19/pdf/CFR-2014-title40-vol19-sec86-1869-12.pdf https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CFR-2014-title40-vol19/p...
  - Kon-Peki 3y ago
    > It's not strictly mandatory. My understanding is that if the automaker uses it during the EPA fuel economy test, it must be enabled every time the car starts. If not, the automaker can choose to have it remember your preferences.
- RandallBrown 3y ago
  I'm only assuming that both of my brand new cars are EPA compliant (they may not be) but they'll just turn back on if it's been long enough to get too cold or warm.

adolph 3y ago

I wonder if and what Ford offers for 450v traction battery to 12v buck conversion.

dinkblam 3y ago

> Some of those that work forces are the same that burn… that made my day.

Axsuul 3y ago

Title sucks – more like taken off the market.

jdblair 3y ago

Some of those that work forces are the same that burn less fuel with hybrid technology Kudos for the slightly awkward Rage Against the Machine reference.

kbenson 3y ago
I've tried to puzzle out what that verse means for years and had a few theories, and just finally got it and I wasn't interpreting "forces" right at all.
- johng 3y ago
  Ditto. I finally get the song verse now as well. Kudos.
- jdblair 3y ago
  For years I thought the line was "those who were enforcers were the same...". Almost the same meaning, but it has an extra syllable.

Animats 3y ago

That makes sense. Cops spend much time sitting in their cars, parked, with the vehicle systems powered up.

HeyLaughingBoy 3y ago

[flagged]

pixl97 3y ago

There has been a lot of interest in the Edison hybrid diesel line for this feature in custom work trucks. Being able to run pumps/electronics without having the main engine running allows for a huge amount of fuel savings. In addition it drops the amount of noise and pollution generated, especially in sensitive areas.

indigo0086 3y ago

Cringey AF rage against the machine callback

gambiting 3y ago

>>which offers up to an EPA-estimated 24 mpg combined fuel economy I just don't understand why these vehicles aren't diesels, I get that Americans have strong aversion to diesel but modern big SUVs diesels can 50mpg all day long without even trying. Surely the fuel savings are worth it alone. Why isn't there demand from the market for it?