7 ms·

It came as a surprise for me to learn that PG fired Sam. It's the first time that I read this actually, and if that's true, I find it kind of mysterious that it

It came as a surprise for me to learn that PG fired Sam. It's the first time that I read this actually, and if that's true, I find it kind of mysterious that it remained a secret for so long. Or maybe I missed the news somehow but I could not find any other mention of that event on Google.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago
I've definitely never heard of it, and I was pretty shocked when I read it given how much positive stuff pg has written about sama, and the article itself says the firing "has not been previously reported". Reading some recent pg tweets through this lens, though, I think it makes sense. E.g. there is this tweet: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988. Both of the following can be true (and more to the point, I think the following two items are flip sides of the same coin): 1. Sam is an absolute masterful negotiator and is incredibly well-respected in the valley because his skills at assembling people and resources are unmatched. 2. Sam can be manipulative and self-serving, sometimes making decisions that are nominally about a higher goal but (not really coincidentally) are self-aggrandizing. I see this trait in lots of effective, famous people. There have been tons of comparisons in the news recently to Steve Jobs, but for me for some reason Anna Wintour comes to mind. I don't think many people would describe Wintour as "nice" as she is known for being kind of ruthless and manipulative (she was "The Devil" after all...), but tons of people in the fashion industry are incredibly loyal to her based on her abilities to identify talent and get shit done.
- huytersd 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - petre 3y ago
    It was suggested by the OP. "The book The Devil Wears Prada was loosely inspired by Lauren Weisberger's stint as an assistant to legendary Vogue editor Anna Wintour."
  - TillE 3y ago
    How'd you miss her as one of the New York high society characters that Trump was constantly having petty complaints about?
- greatNespresso 3y ago
  You make a fair point about that tweet, it can be ironic or sincere and it left me a mixed feeling. I am not sure what was PG's goal with that tweet but it did not feel necessary.
- btown 3y ago
  > sometimes making decisions that are nominally about a higher goal but (not really coincidentally) are self-aggrandizing "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."
  - SpaceManNabs 3y ago
    It has been a decade, but let me guess, Mass effect 3 Mordin? I rather not look it up lol.
  - noitpmeder 3y ago
    Damn this line still pulls at the heart strings... Might have to replay
  - bart_spoon 3y ago
    Isn’t that reference like the exact opposite? It’s nominally self-aggrandizing (he’s the only one who could have gotten it right) but is actually about a higher goal (sacrificing himself for everyone else’s sake). That’s how I remember reacting to it anyways.
    - btown 3y ago
      No doubt Sam Altman thinks this is the case - which, perhaps, is the entire point.
- AndrewKemendo 3y ago
  It’s a straight down the middle, no questions about it, perfectly crafted politically perfect Narcissistic capitalist. Sam is what would come out if you created a technocrat in a lab
CSSer 3y ago
We have a tendency to remember the good and not the bad, and we want to see our friends do well. Someone else also pointed out here in the comments that no one wants to publicly state they made a bad call if they can avoid it because it will likely damage them personally. We give others lots of chances, or we encourage and cheer them when others are taking chances on them in the hopes that they'll do better this time even when we would no longer risk our own skin. I imagine most of us think, "S/he was so close to success. Maybe s/he'll have learned! What could be the harm in talking them up a bit? Besides, no one wants to ruin someone else's life,"
twoodfin 3y ago
Weird: The most relevant hn post on Altman’s departure from YC is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19342184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19342184 But despite comments to the effect that the YC post indicated Sam’s departure, it doesn’t seem to say anything about it right now?
- greatNespresso 3y ago
  Thank you for the article, I saw a comment from Sam in the HN post but agreed it did not look obvious that he got fired.
- theschmed 3y ago
  Nor in 2022 when it was first archived by Wayback (unless archives from previous have been removed) https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.ycom...
  - twoodfin 3y ago
    But this contemporaneous TechCrunch article—which is clearly talking about the same blog post—says it did! https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/08/y-combinator-president-sam-altman-is-stepping-down-amid-a-series-of-changes-at-the-accelerator/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/08/y-combinator-president-sam...
  - jeromegv 3y ago
    They actually changed the URL structure This is the old URL, and they indeed mentioned Sam leaving https://web.archive.org/web/20190316222853/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190316222853/https://blog.ycom...
    - theschmed 3y ago
      Ohhhh thanks. Looking at those it looks like there was an edit: > Updated on 6/12/20 > In May 2019, Geoff Ralston took over as YC President. At that time, Sam Altman stepped away from any formal position at YC. https://web.archive.org/web/20201028062425/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20201028062425/https://blog.ycom... And then shortly after the edit disappeared too: https://web.archive.org/web/20210423025128/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210423025128/https://blog.ycom...
davesque 3y ago
It could be that the parties involved have chosen at this moment to re-imagine whatever occurred back then in a less favorable light. Since firing is on everyone's mind, and since you can get media attention points by playing along with a juicy narrative, what might have just been described as a disagreement in the past might now be called a firing. I would be skeptical of takes like this.
icelancer 3y ago
I've fired people and later recommended them for jobs where they'd be a better fit. Not uncommon at all.
- washadjeffmad 3y ago
  My immediate thought. Relatively few have been in management here, perhaps.
  - icelancer 3y ago
    It's largely engineers who don't really understand the value of a C-level person, as evidenced time and time again in the comments. The concept you could fire someone for business reasons and later be their very good friend and recommend them for another job - sometimes an even better one than you employed them in - doesn't fit the single-input single-output mind of a lot of engineers. It's alright. We all have roles to play.
    - gardenhedge 3y ago
      Your reg dates are 2012 and 2014. As you know, this is hacker news. not c-level news, not middle management news.. hacker news.
      - imdsm 3y ago
        That's exactly the point. I'm C level, but at heart, I'm a hacker and and engineer, and have been for what, 24 years now (sobering). Reflecting on this isn't a criticism (though we all know how touchy engineer-types can be) -- it's just an acknowledgment. To E-types, firing is loss of job, loss of livelihood, to C-types, it's a reposition of an asset, a reassignment of a resource to a new project. All we're doing here is acknowledging this.
        gardenhedge 3y ago
        > though we all know how touchy engineer-types can be I am unfamiliar with this
JabavuAdams 3y ago
I feel the same way about Annie Altman's allegations. Those were out there, but somehow I wasn't aware of them, and I see almost no one discussing them. I mean, I understand why, but it's still disheartening.
- concordDance 3y ago
  > I understand why Because its pointless and unpleasant, we have zero means of verifying or discomfirming the story and it won't go anywhere because its unprovable.
  - JabavuAdams 3y ago
    It's unpleasant, but it's not pointless. We've just had days of uninformed and uninvolved randos micro-analysing all things Altman, and pushing various wild speculations. This is seen as okay as long as it's confined to what is essentially office intrigue and gossip. But on the much more consequential topic of potential childhood sexual misdeeds -- nothing. We don't know whether there's any means of verifying the story until people actually put some effort into verifying the story. Also, it's not unprovable. Perhaps in a mathematical sense, but that's not even required in a courtroom. Consider all that's been written about Altman's character, using such weak signals as "this former co-worker said this about him". Meanwhile there's this disturbing piece of information that could be a strong signal that is completely ignored. Have you spoken to anyone in your life who has been molested, or abused? It really cuts through the abstract arguments and illustrates that this dynamic is how abusers get away with it.
    - concordDance 3y ago
      > Also, it's not unprovable No it really is. Unless Sam explicitly confesses it's completely impossible to prove to a courtroom standard. It would have happened two decades ago, with a person he had frequent private physical access to. There is no possible physical or witness evidence. It can't go anywhere. Also, remembered allegations of sexual assault from when someone is four are much weaker signals than recountings of behavior by an adult in a workplace setting.
miiiiiike 3y ago
Sometimes you have to fire people you like. It doesn't have to be a relationship shattering event.
joshxyz 3y ago
mg impression is that he outgrew the role. that he is better being a ceo somewhere than babysitting founders.

hn_throwaway_99 3y ago

I've definitely never heard of it, and I was pretty shocked when I read it given how much positive stuff pg has written about sama, and the article itself says the firing "has not been previously reported". Reading some recent pg tweets through this lens, though, I think it makes sense. E.g. there is this tweet: https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988 https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1726198939517378988. Both of the following can be true (and more to the point, I think the following two items are flip sides of the same coin): 1. Sam is an absolute masterful negotiator and is incredibly well-respected in the valley because his skills at assembling people and resources are unmatched. 2. Sam can be manipulative and self-serving, sometimes making decisions that are nominally about a higher goal but (not really coincidentally) are self-aggrandizing. I see this trait in lots of effective, famous people. There have been tons of comparisons in the news recently to Steve Jobs, but for me for some reason Anna Wintour comes to mind. I don't think many people would describe Wintour as "nice" as she is known for being kind of ruthless and manipulative (she was "The Devil" after all...), but tons of people in the fashion industry are incredibly loyal to her based on her abilities to identify talent and get shit done.

huytersd 3y ago
[flagged]
- petre 3y ago
  It was suggested by the OP. "The book The Devil Wears Prada was loosely inspired by Lauren Weisberger's stint as an assistant to legendary Vogue editor Anna Wintour."
- TillE 3y ago
  How'd you miss her as one of the New York high society characters that Trump was constantly having petty complaints about?
greatNespresso 3y ago
You make a fair point about that tweet, it can be ironic or sincere and it left me a mixed feeling. I am not sure what was PG's goal with that tweet but it did not feel necessary.
btown 3y ago
> sometimes making decisions that are nominally about a higher goal but (not really coincidentally) are self-aggrandizing "Had to be me. Someone else might have gotten it wrong."
- SpaceManNabs 3y ago
  It has been a decade, but let me guess, Mass effect 3 Mordin? I rather not look it up lol.
- noitpmeder 3y ago
  Damn this line still pulls at the heart strings... Might have to replay
- bart_spoon 3y ago
  Isn’t that reference like the exact opposite? It’s nominally self-aggrandizing (he’s the only one who could have gotten it right) but is actually about a higher goal (sacrificing himself for everyone else’s sake). That’s how I remember reacting to it anyways.
  - btown 3y ago
    No doubt Sam Altman thinks this is the case - which, perhaps, is the entire point.
AndrewKemendo 3y ago
It’s a straight down the middle, no questions about it, perfectly crafted politically perfect Narcissistic capitalist. Sam is what would come out if you created a technocrat in a lab

CSSer 3y ago

We have a tendency to remember the good and not the bad, and we want to see our friends do well. Someone else also pointed out here in the comments that no one wants to publicly state they made a bad call if they can avoid it because it will likely damage them personally. We give others lots of chances, or we encourage and cheer them when others are taking chances on them in the hopes that they'll do better this time even when we would no longer risk our own skin. I imagine most of us think, "S/he was so close to success. Maybe s/he'll have learned! What could be the harm in talking them up a bit? Besides, no one wants to ruin someone else's life,"

twoodfin 3y ago

Weird: The most relevant hn post on Altman’s departure from YC is https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19342184 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19342184 But despite comments to the effect that the YC post indicated Sam’s departure, it doesn’t seem to say anything about it right now?

greatNespresso 3y ago
Thank you for the article, I saw a comment from Sam in the HN post but agreed it did not look obvious that he got fired.
theschmed 3y ago
Nor in 2022 when it was first archived by Wayback (unless archives from previous have been removed) https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.ycombinator.com/blog/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20230000000000*/https://www.ycom...
- twoodfin 3y ago
  But this contemporaneous TechCrunch article—which is clearly talking about the same blog post—says it did! https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/08/y-combinator-president-sam-altman-is-stepping-down-amid-a-series-of-changes-at-the-accelerator/ https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/08/y-combinator-president-sam...
- jeromegv 3y ago
  They actually changed the URL structure This is the old URL, and they indeed mentioned Sam leaving https://web.archive.org/web/20190316222853/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20190316222853/https://blog.ycom...
  - theschmed 3y ago
    Ohhhh thanks. Looking at those it looks like there was an edit: > Updated on 6/12/20 > In May 2019, Geoff Ralston took over as YC President. At that time, Sam Altman stepped away from any formal position at YC. https://web.archive.org/web/20201028062425/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20201028062425/https://blog.ycom... And then shortly after the edit disappeared too: https://web.archive.org/web/20210423025128/https://blog.ycombinator.com/updates-from-yc/ https://web.archive.org/web/20210423025128/https://blog.ycom...

davesque 3y ago

It could be that the parties involved have chosen at this moment to re-imagine whatever occurred back then in a less favorable light. Since firing is on everyone's mind, and since you can get media attention points by playing along with a juicy narrative, what might have just been described as a disagreement in the past might now be called a firing. I would be skeptical of takes like this.

icelancer 3y ago

I've fired people and later recommended them for jobs where they'd be a better fit. Not uncommon at all.

washadjeffmad 3y ago
My immediate thought. Relatively few have been in management here, perhaps.
- icelancer 3y ago
  It's largely engineers who don't really understand the value of a C-level person, as evidenced time and time again in the comments. The concept you could fire someone for business reasons and later be their very good friend and recommend them for another job - sometimes an even better one than you employed them in - doesn't fit the single-input single-output mind of a lot of engineers. It's alright. We all have roles to play.
  - gardenhedge 3y ago
    Your reg dates are 2012 and 2014. As you know, this is hacker news. not c-level news, not middle management news.. hacker news.
    - imdsm 3y ago
      That's exactly the point. I'm C level, but at heart, I'm a hacker and and engineer, and have been for what, 24 years now (sobering). Reflecting on this isn't a criticism (though we all know how touchy engineer-types can be) -- it's just an acknowledgment. To E-types, firing is loss of job, loss of livelihood, to C-types, it's a reposition of an asset, a reassignment of a resource to a new project. All we're doing here is acknowledging this.
      - gardenhedge 3y ago
        > though we all know how touchy engineer-types can be I am unfamiliar with this

JabavuAdams 3y ago

I feel the same way about Annie Altman's allegations. Those were out there, but somehow I wasn't aware of them, and I see almost no one discussing them. I mean, I understand why, but it's still disheartening.

concordDance 3y ago
> I understand why Because its pointless and unpleasant, we have zero means of verifying or discomfirming the story and it won't go anywhere because its unprovable.
- JabavuAdams 3y ago
  It's unpleasant, but it's not pointless. We've just had days of uninformed and uninvolved randos micro-analysing all things Altman, and pushing various wild speculations. This is seen as okay as long as it's confined to what is essentially office intrigue and gossip. But on the much more consequential topic of potential childhood sexual misdeeds -- nothing. We don't know whether there's any means of verifying the story until people actually put some effort into verifying the story. Also, it's not unprovable. Perhaps in a mathematical sense, but that's not even required in a courtroom. Consider all that's been written about Altman's character, using such weak signals as "this former co-worker said this about him". Meanwhile there's this disturbing piece of information that could be a strong signal that is completely ignored. Have you spoken to anyone in your life who has been molested, or abused? It really cuts through the abstract arguments and illustrates that this dynamic is how abusers get away with it.
  - concordDance 3y ago
    > Also, it's not unprovable No it really is. Unless Sam explicitly confesses it's completely impossible to prove to a courtroom standard. It would have happened two decades ago, with a person he had frequent private physical access to. There is no possible physical or witness evidence. It can't go anywhere. Also, remembered allegations of sexual assault from when someone is four are much weaker signals than recountings of behavior by an adult in a workplace setting.

miiiiiike 3y ago

Sometimes you have to fire people you like. It doesn't have to be a relationship shattering event.

joshxyz 3y ago

mg impression is that he outgrew the role. that he is better being a ceo somewhere than babysitting founders.