4 ms·

In the context of Linux adoption on the desktop it is not big news, unfortunately. To my mind, overall end-user experience is already better in Linux compared t

In the context of Linux adoption on the desktop it is not big news, unfortunately. To my mind, overall end-user experience is already better in Linux compared to Windows where similar tasks are more complicated, even before the raw performance starts to matter. Better performance would be a prerequisite indeed - no one wants to move a slower OS - but then there must be other convincing reasons to drive the desktop user adoption. And no roadblocks. Edit: sorry, rephrased a lot, but the core idea is hopefully the same.

bryanlarsen 3y ago
20% extra performance matters a lot to anybody buying a $5000 Threadripper machine. If they didn't care about performance, they could have saved a lot of money...
aleph_minus_one 3y ago
> And yet, users don't convert to Linux. So there must be other reasons, and performance benefits don't seem to work so far. For enterprise desktop purposes: One central reason is that there is no Excel for GNU/Linux. Accept it or not: the workflows of lots of departments are deeply intertwined with Excel (and it would take an insane amount of work to replace Excel by some other spreadsheet application). Another important reason is that GNU/Linux is not some singular operating system, but a proliferation of various different distributions - this is not something that enterprise customers like.
- OPA100 3y ago
  We run thousands of Linux desktop workstations from low-end workstations for developers to dual-socket machines with >1TB of memory at work. That's primarily because productivity for our use cases is so much higher with a Linux/Unix environment than Windows that it's not even remotely funny. However, almost all users still have either the standard corporate-issue Windows laptop, or a Windows VM on their workstation. Practically exclusively for Desktop Excel-based administrative tasks. Generally speaking, the vast majority of our userbase likes their Linux workstations far better than their Windows machines, and that's after experiencing the significant downgrade to Gnome desktops due to Red Hat removing KDE.
  - throw555chip 3y ago
    As a dev, wish I worked there, IBM was the only other place I worked where many devs and even a few thousand ordinary users like marketing, ran Linux. Also, I wasn't aware RedHat removed KDE, what an odd and crappy move. KDE rocks. Gnome not. RPM based distros sooner or later corrupt themselves, I run and recommend Ubuntu or Kubuntu (for KDE people), with Snap disabled with a small apt preferences file.
- torginus 3y ago
  Would it? I exclusively use Office365 on the browser for all my Excel needs. It works perfectly, even if it's a bit sluggish. But I admit, Excel is a side hustle for me.
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    I rarely, if ever, use Excel. But I find that Outlook in the browser wipes the floor with local Outlook, be it "OG" or "new" Outlook. Everything is much smoother, there are no window widgets crapping up (right now, the min / max / close and window title of my new outlook are black on a dark grey background - I'm using the windows dark theme). This holds even in Firefox on Linux – it's how I mostly interact with MS Office. What's also fun to me is that the other day, I tried "opening in word" a .docx attachment I received in my locally-installed "new" outlook. It didn't even try to open my locally installed word on ask me anything. It uploaded the file to onedrive without asking and proceeded to launch word online to read it.
mmcnl 3y ago
The end user experience is way better on Windows than Linux. And I say that as someone who uses Linux (Ubuntu Gnome) daily. You really have to appreciate the freedom of choice that FOSS brings you to appreciate Linux. If you don't care, as most people do, you're probably better off with Windows. Ofcourse you can counter my reasoning by listing a lot of problems with Windows. And I can assure you that most people don't care about the stuff you (as a Linux user) would care about. Windows just works. It has Office, Excel, Word, PowerPoint. It's familiar. Instructions for any kind of software contain Windows instructions. Friends and family can help you if you have problems. Etc. (Windows is the only OS that can handle different fractional scaling factors properly for multiple displays. Fractional scaling on Linux is a joke, and macOS doesn't care about low DPI screens at all so everything looks terrible.)
- JaggedJax 3y ago
  I agreed with this for a long time, but in the past 4ish years I no longer agree. On Windows I regularly run into frustrating issues with audio, drivers, printers, random odd errors. On linux (currently PoP OS, first on a System76, now a Dell) I have not been running into issues. The biggest issue I ran into was strange Wifi connection issues, which System76 had me submit logs for and identified it as a failed Wifi card. But my audio, drivers, printer, scanner and day to day tasks just work. Yes there are features that are missing on one platform or another. But day to day is now much more pleasant for me on desktop linux as I run into far less frustrating issues.
  - glimshe 3y ago
    I'll reinforce what the parent is saying: for most users, Windows just works. Although I don't like Macs too much, they also just work. I'm a Linux fan, but I can get myself productive in a new Windows install with no grief. For Linux, I always need to go online to remember "that config change" I had to make to get things working for me - and even then, from time to time I still have to tweak and work around a problem or two as I add more stuff to my computer. What you just wrote as your biggest issue is actually a fairly common Linux experience - submit or search logs from some piece of hardware to diagnose some little glitch. I'm willing to put on the time, but my nobody else in my family is.

bryanlarsen 3y ago

20% extra performance matters a lot to anybody buying a $5000 Threadripper machine. If they didn't care about performance, they could have saved a lot of money...

aleph_minus_one 3y ago

> And yet, users don't convert to Linux. So there must be other reasons, and performance benefits don't seem to work so far. For enterprise desktop purposes: One central reason is that there is no Excel for GNU/Linux. Accept it or not: the workflows of lots of departments are deeply intertwined with Excel (and it would take an insane amount of work to replace Excel by some other spreadsheet application). Another important reason is that GNU/Linux is not some singular operating system, but a proliferation of various different distributions - this is not something that enterprise customers like.

OPA100 3y ago
We run thousands of Linux desktop workstations from low-end workstations for developers to dual-socket machines with >1TB of memory at work. That's primarily because productivity for our use cases is so much higher with a Linux/Unix environment than Windows that it's not even remotely funny. However, almost all users still have either the standard corporate-issue Windows laptop, or a Windows VM on their workstation. Practically exclusively for Desktop Excel-based administrative tasks. Generally speaking, the vast majority of our userbase likes their Linux workstations far better than their Windows machines, and that's after experiencing the significant downgrade to Gnome desktops due to Red Hat removing KDE.
- throw555chip 3y ago
  As a dev, wish I worked there, IBM was the only other place I worked where many devs and even a few thousand ordinary users like marketing, ran Linux. Also, I wasn't aware RedHat removed KDE, what an odd and crappy move. KDE rocks. Gnome not. RPM based distros sooner or later corrupt themselves, I run and recommend Ubuntu or Kubuntu (for KDE people), with Snap disabled with a small apt preferences file.
torginus 3y ago
Would it? I exclusively use Office365 on the browser for all my Excel needs. It works perfectly, even if it's a bit sluggish. But I admit, Excel is a side hustle for me.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  I rarely, if ever, use Excel. But I find that Outlook in the browser wipes the floor with local Outlook, be it "OG" or "new" Outlook. Everything is much smoother, there are no window widgets crapping up (right now, the min / max / close and window title of my new outlook are black on a dark grey background - I'm using the windows dark theme). This holds even in Firefox on Linux – it's how I mostly interact with MS Office. What's also fun to me is that the other day, I tried "opening in word" a .docx attachment I received in my locally-installed "new" outlook. It didn't even try to open my locally installed word on ask me anything. It uploaded the file to onedrive without asking and proceeded to launch word online to read it.

mmcnl 3y ago

The end user experience is way better on Windows than Linux. And I say that as someone who uses Linux (Ubuntu Gnome) daily. You really have to appreciate the freedom of choice that FOSS brings you to appreciate Linux. If you don't care, as most people do, you're probably better off with Windows. Ofcourse you can counter my reasoning by listing a lot of problems with Windows. And I can assure you that most people don't care about the stuff you (as a Linux user) would care about. Windows just works. It has Office, Excel, Word, PowerPoint. It's familiar. Instructions for any kind of software contain Windows instructions. Friends and family can help you if you have problems. Etc. (Windows is the only OS that can handle different fractional scaling factors properly for multiple displays. Fractional scaling on Linux is a joke, and macOS doesn't care about low DPI screens at all so everything looks terrible.)

JaggedJax 3y ago
I agreed with this for a long time, but in the past 4ish years I no longer agree. On Windows I regularly run into frustrating issues with audio, drivers, printers, random odd errors. On linux (currently PoP OS, first on a System76, now a Dell) I have not been running into issues. The biggest issue I ran into was strange Wifi connection issues, which System76 had me submit logs for and identified it as a failed Wifi card. But my audio, drivers, printer, scanner and day to day tasks just work. Yes there are features that are missing on one platform or another. But day to day is now much more pleasant for me on desktop linux as I run into far less frustrating issues.
- glimshe 3y ago
  I'll reinforce what the parent is saying: for most users, Windows just works. Although I don't like Macs too much, they also just work. I'm a Linux fan, but I can get myself productive in a new Windows install with no grief. For Linux, I always need to go online to remember "that config change" I had to make to get things working for me - and even then, from time to time I still have to tweak and work around a problem or two as I add more stuff to my computer. What you just wrote as your biggest issue is actually a fairly common Linux experience - submit or search logs from some piece of hardware to diagnose some little glitch. I'm willing to put on the time, but my nobody else in my family is.