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Web Forms and Windows Forms were both relevant for over a decade. For front end tech, that's pretty good. The Windows GUI tools definitely seem to be strugglin

Web Forms and Windows Forms were both relevant for over a decade. For front end tech, that's pretty good. The Windows GUI tools definitely seem to be struggling. Developing native desktop apps is much rarer these days, so all the attempts to create a single toolkit for multiple form factors makes some sense. But that is actually really hard to do, and Microsoft is starting from behind when it comes to mobile frameworks. FWIW, the last time I developed a native desktop app was WPF. I tried again recently, but my general takeaway was that you need full Visual Studio still to make it work.

pjmlp 3y ago
The worst part, is that at least in public like community channels and tickets, they don't seem to get the point that this has burned lots of bridges with the Windows developer community. To the point that many might still use Windows, but not necessarly Microsoft frameworks.
fifticon 3y ago
I am forced to do WPF as part of my day job, but come from 10+ years of Qt and other UI frameworks. I loathe WPF. It feels overengineered and undercooked at the same time. It feels inelegant. It oozes that it was built by people who would never have to use it themselves, with the attitude 'yeah of course I can make one of those, how hard could it be??'. The built-in hbox/vbox are broken, which is inexcusable as those are the bread & butter of any UI. The way margins and borders is handled is horrendous. The way you set up styling/theming/defaults is horrendous. The way the docking layout is designed is ugly - why is the center widget a special case?? The way the grid layout is implemented is demented. The way the default datagrid works is demented. I have two or more tips for anyone who wants to design a UI framework: (1) Try how a default OK/Cancel WITH LAYOUT can be expressed in your idiom. If it looks ugly and convoluted, fix your design until you don't have that problem. (2) Try how a 'tools on the sides, resizable work area in the middle' works in your idiom. If it sucks, see (1). (3) Check how margins and borders are controlled and defined in your idiom. If it requires repeating '10px' 480 places all over your source, see (1). (4) Check if evenly spacing/sizing a bunch of similar components requires special handling for first or last element, again, see(1). WPF fails all of these, and several more.
- baz00 3y ago
  Yeah this. It's horrible. We have one which was built ages ago. It falls to bits on high DPI displays suddenly as of Windows 11. No one knows why, even at Microsoft. It's being replaced with some pile of shit in Electron instead.

pjmlp 3y ago

The worst part, is that at least in public like community channels and tickets, they don't seem to get the point that this has burned lots of bridges with the Windows developer community. To the point that many might still use Windows, but not necessarly Microsoft frameworks.

fifticon 3y ago

I am forced to do WPF as part of my day job, but come from 10+ years of Qt and other UI frameworks. I loathe WPF. It feels overengineered and undercooked at the same time. It feels inelegant. It oozes that it was built by people who would never have to use it themselves, with the attitude 'yeah of course I can make one of those, how hard could it be??'. The built-in hbox/vbox are broken, which is inexcusable as those are the bread & butter of any UI. The way margins and borders is handled is horrendous. The way you set up styling/theming/defaults is horrendous. The way the docking layout is designed is ugly - why is the center widget a special case?? The way the grid layout is implemented is demented. The way the default datagrid works is demented. I have two or more tips for anyone who wants to design a UI framework: (1) Try how a default OK/Cancel WITH LAYOUT can be expressed in your idiom. If it looks ugly and convoluted, fix your design until you don't have that problem. (2) Try how a 'tools on the sides, resizable work area in the middle' works in your idiom. If it sucks, see (1). (3) Check how margins and borders are controlled and defined in your idiom. If it requires repeating '10px' 480 places all over your source, see (1). (4) Check if evenly spacing/sizing a bunch of similar components requires special handling for first or last element, again, see(1). WPF fails all of these, and several more.

baz00 3y ago
Yeah this. It's horrible. We have one which was built ages ago. It falls to bits on high DPI displays suddenly as of Windows 11. No one knows why, even at Microsoft. It's being replaced with some pile of shit in Electron instead.